Who ranks highest all time Hopkins, Mayweather, Pacquiao or Usyk ?

Fury and AJ have very thin resumes and are largely unproven so I don't see how they can compare with Mayweathers wins over more proven opponents.

We can't rate either of them because they have so little in the way of quality wins

 

Rexrapper 1,

Hatton did nothing after losing to Floyd.

Neither did Shane.

Neither did Oscar.


AJ and Fury aren’t retired as yet. So we’ll have to see what happens in the future. But between them, they’d cleaned out the division.


Look at Dubois.

He’s done very good, relevant things after having lost to Usyk.

That’s fine if you think Fury is/was overrated. But we KNOW that wasn’t Tyson fighting to his full capabilities, otherwise he’d never have been able to have beaten the guys who he did. Again, the fight was supposed to be an exhibition. It was then changed right at the last moment, to be an official fight.

We know that isn’t true regarding Floyd. Because he used to pride himself on his fitness, and again, he was hugely motivated to break Rocky’s record.


Okay, Ruiz beat AJ. But AJ won the rematch, and then Ruiz ate himself out of a trilogy.

Yes, AJ wasn’t some amazing HW. But he was still a very good HW, who along with Tyson, had cleared out the division at the time. And an ageing Usyk moved up to beat them both twice each, where he gave up height, reach and weight in 4 fights.


How many times was Floyd completely outsized in height, reach and weight?

I can only remember the one fight.


You can dismiss Joshua for losing to Ruiz, yet Cotto had lost to Marg.

Shane had lost twice to Forrest and Winky years earlier.

So??


I could also pick out many of Floyd’s other opponents, who had also lost to non elite guys along the way.

Even Manny.

There’s a cash out fight against AJ.

What else is there?

And I can say that Hatton wasn’t great, he was outsized, he wasn’t a WW and he did absolutely nothing after.

We can spin things however we want.


You can say he’s in the HOF.

Okay, so is Gatti.

So you’re going to ignore:


The fact that they’d cleaned out the division between them.

That Usyk had moved up, where he was completely outsized in height, reach and weight.

The degree of difficulty and risk.


The MMA fight is just you reaching. You cannot ignore the rest of his resume. A motivated Tyson Fury, who outweighed Usyk by 50 pounds, was a very tough challenge for an ageing Usyk.

You cannot just dismiss that, because of what had happened with Ngannou.

If you want to use that specific logic/type of thinking, then I can tear down Manny’s career.


Again, so what if Ruiz had beaten AJ?

The win was avenged.


Wlad K lost to 3 non great HW’s.

Lennox lost to 2.

Manny lost to non elite guys on the way up.


Shane had lost.

Cotto had lost.


When you APPLY context, and you look at the stylistic match ups, the risks, the challenges and the degree of difficulty etc, then Floyd’s best wins don’t eclipse the best wins of Usyk.

Again, they would had he have beaten PRIME versions of Oscar, Canelo and Manny etc, but he didn’t.


Again, he has a deeper resume for sure.

But beating a faded and injured Manny, after using an illegal IV, isn’t better than beating Tyson Fury and AJ.

Neither was beating a faded Shane, a faded Oscar, a faded Cotto, or a pre-prime Canelo, with a ludicrous C-W, who could barely beat Austin Trout and Erislandy Lara at the time.

 

Floyd > Pac > Hopkins > Usyk. I love them all but Hopkins had such a longevity soz Usyk. Pac is just a legend. Floyd is just better as a fighter and at the resume.

 

What on earth are you talking about??

It was YOU who asked the question, where you were asking for examples.

You asked, and I answered.

 

Who wins if they all fight? Usyk.

Night.

 

Cotto was not in his prime.

Not at all.

That’s just silly.


Floyd has greater depth.


He doesn’t have greater wins.

 

What on earth are you talking about?


They cleaned out the division between them.

They beat:

Wlad
Whyte
Parker
Chisora
Wilder
Ruiz
Pulev
Povetkin

Usyk then moved up, where he beat them twice each, where he was completely outsized in height, reach and weight.

He also beat Dubois.


What did Floyd do what was so amazing, which was on another level??

 

Criticizing Floyd for fighting past it opponents but Wlad was old as hell. Whyte is not hof. Chisora is a damn gatekeeper. Wilders resume is too thin to be comparable to someone like even old Shane Mosley, I dont care how hard Wilder punched he was completely overrated with no skills. Ruiz best win is aj himself beforehand. Ruiz has no good wins beyond a shot Luis Ortiz who almost beat Ruiz in that fight.

Both Pulev and Povetkin were in his prime during the Klitschko era, the fact you keep listing these has beens and fringe contenders lets me know this era is weak

 

1. Corrales did
2. Canelo did
3. Castillo did
4. Cotto did
5. Pacquiao did
You get the point. I can name many fighters on Floyd's resume who had success after losing to Floyd.

There is no way to explain away letting an MMA fighter almost beat him with no experience. You see stuff like that and is it really a surprise Usyk beat him? You are trying to act like Fury who literally came off of almost losing to an MMA fighter is just as good as any Floyd win because you are giving him the benefit of the doubt. Would you give a Floyd opponent the same benefit of the doubt?

Floyd on the McGregor fight, "I didn't really train. All I did was push-ups and situps. Boxed a few times. Hit the bag a few times. Cause actually training camp was in different places. I would do training camp in Vegas a few days. Sometimes I wouldn't go to the gym for a week." Does that sound like someone who was hugely motivated to break Marciano's record? To me it sounds like someone who knew an MMA fighter couldn't beat him and didn't have an extensive camp because of it.

Now what does Fury say? "It wasn't my best performance but I'm not going to make any excuses. I had a good camp. There was no one to blame or no one to do anything it was a tough fight. I had to get off the floor to win and yeah, no excuses." When asked if it was a below par performance for himself he said, "Yeah it was a below par performance but take nothing away from the other man. You're only as good as your opponent will let you be. That's a fact." He was asked about the media saying he couldn't lose to Francis and it was an easy fight. He said, "If I would have listened to the media and all so-called boxing experts then I wouldn't have been able to win that fight." Fury said, "I didn't underestimate Francis at all. I trained for 12 weeks and gave it the best preparation I could have done and that's it." Do these quotes sound like someone who didn't take the fight seriously? You are giving Fury an out that he is blatantly denying. He said he prepared his best. He said he took the fight seriously.

AJ was a solid heavyweight. Just like Fury. They weren't very good. Very good doesn't lose twice to a smaller man when they have significant advantages over them. Plus they already proved they weren't very good prior to facing Usyk. Them losing to Usyk just confirmed it. Fury admitted to having a good camp and still almost lost to an MMA fighter. Joshua let an obese heavyweight who he had almost every advantage over beat the brakes off of him. Those fights showed who they really were.

Wladimir proved himself. He lost and went on to have the second longest heavyweight reign in history. Did Joshua do that? Lennox became undisputed champion. Did Joshua do that? Manny and Cotto both had success after losing. What is Joshua doing right now? You are bringing up fighters that don't even compare to Joshua. I need to see Joshua come back. Same with Fury. The problem is, I don't believe neither one will.

I strongly disagree with that because Floyd beat better and more experienced fighters. Usyk's challenge was the size difference not the skill. He has said this himself. That if Fury and Joshua were his size, the fights wouldn't be as difficult. The size is what made them difficult. In the case of Floyd, it was the skill and experience of his opposition.

It's funny how you bring up Floyd's opposition and you are quick to diminish his wins but when it comes to Usyk's wins, you make excuses. "Yeah Fury almost lost to an MMA fighter with no experience but so what? We know he didn't take the fight seriously." "Yeah Joshua lost to a fat slob but so what? He avenged the loss". People tend to do this with fighters they like vs ones they don't. Keep the same energy both ways. You bring up Canelo barely beating Trout and Lara but initially dismissed Joshua losing to Ruiz and are outright giving Fury a pass for almost losing to an MMA fighter with zero pro experience.

 

Did I ask you? I could have sworn I was asking someone else. If it was to you then my bad.

 

Nobody has said otherwise.

Keep up with the debate.


This was said in response to what had been said previously.


I haven’t criticised Floyd.

I’ve just said that because his wins weren’t over prime guys, that they were no better and not on another level, to Usyk’s best wins.


Now if you don’t agree with that, then come and refute it.


If Floyd had beaten a prime Oscar, a prime Manny or a prime Shane etc, then those would be MONSTER wins, which Usyk couldn’t touch.

But because they weren’t, the wins are certainly COMPARABLE.


Moving up and beating AJ x 2, Fury x 2, and Dubois, is certainly COMPARABLE to beating a faded and injured Manny, a faded Shane and a pre-prime Canelo at a completely unnecessary catch-weight, etc. 100%

 

They aren't comparable. Past it Oscar De La Hoya is bare minimum = anthony joshua and prime Corrales is aj level win if you overrated aj

Whatever state you think they were in, whatever the circumstances, the top wins aren't comparable

Miguel Cotto > Joshua

Castillo and Marquez > Briedis

Hatton > Dubois

Canelo >> Tyson Fury

You can literally argue that Manny Pacquiao is greater than Usyk himself

And then when you get into the contenders and former champions on their record the gap becomes even wider

 

Manny
Floyd
Usyk
Hopkins

 

Why wasn’t cotto in his prime, but Aj and Fury are classed prime vs usyk?

Cotto was only 31 and had just 2 defeats, one which he avenged and he also went up to win a title and defend in a higher weight class

You can't say a fighter isn't prime just because they have a couple of losses.
Fighters take losses and then can win championships.

You probably aren't an mma fan, but was oliveria in his prime when he had multiple losses and tapping to strikes off Felder? Or when he went up another weight class in his 30s to run through Top opponents to grab the title?

Cotto was in his prime, closer to his prime than Floyd who was 4 years older

 

I agree Fury wasn't prime. He was still however - ostensibly - the king. Cotto, while younger, had been bashed up twice.