Who really won the GGG vs Canelo Fight

Oh dear this thread again. Its clear who both fights - Golovkin, can we put in rest for good now ?

 

https://www.reviewjournal.com/wp-co.../11113821_web1_BOX-CANELOGGG_091518ev_039.jpg

 

The current vote is 478 for GGG winning and 50mpeople who are vision impaired or trolling. I’d consider that put to rest now.

 

IIRC, the second fight was just as razor-close.... I had it Canelo 7- 5 the night of the fight and have rescored it as a draw at least once (the decisive 12th is a lot closer than I remember it being).

While I don't recall GGG fighting too far off the back foot or making Canelo chase, I do think GGG deserves credit for ring generalship in the second fight as he stood tall in the center of the ring, landed hard counterpunches (and counters of counters) & did an admirable job of fighting Canelo's style of fight.

 

I watched the second fight by myself in an AMC theatre full of Mexican fight fans. Thank God for Mexican fight fans because I would have been all alone watching the fight. None of my friends cared to go and I hate watching fights alone. Mexican fans (real ones, not internet idiots) are among the most knowledgeable and honest fans. I was surprised to see many cheering for GGG in the tenth round of the second fight (I think that’s the round, don’t remember exactly) when GGG was landing some clean shots. It was a close fight and I thought Canelo had a slight edge. I watched the replay a few times and thought a draw would have been reasonable. GGG won the first fight.

I hope fans just get past this one. The judges cards are just a reflection of corruption in boxing. I don’t even care if these guys fight again. GGG is old and has slowed down since the last fight and Canelo looks sharper and smarter. He’s also bigger and I’m not sure he can make 160 anymore. This is my last comment in a GGG Canelo fight thread unless they officially announce a third one. Let it go, it’s ancient history.

 

My responses marked with ///

Canelo:
2:56 - jab lands
/// very hard to see this, but yes, but you and I also missed a jab from GGG at the same time. Regardless both jabs are probing touch jabs
2:50 - left hook to back of neck/ear, looks a decent shot, but inside of the glove
/// inside of glove = not clean, historically hits scored as when landed on the knuckles not slaps
2:41 - misses RH *it wasn't a right hook, it was a straight right hand. it definitely landed as it made a audible thud on impact and GGG's gloves were down.
/// was using RH interchangeably for right hook and right hand..regardless no it did not land watch again it hits his shoulder. Watch in slow mo if you cant see it. No effect whatsoever.
2:38 - LH body, could argue it was low, either way appeared to land on the hip *It wasn't low. Right on Belt-line.
/// arguable from the angles. Like I said, it hit the hip, yes belt line...effective shot..i highly doubt
2:35 - cleanish jab, power taken out by leaning back with it *No "ish" about it, landed flush, pushed GGG's face in
/// GGG moved his head back at the same time as the jab landed hence ish..
2:34 - RH does not land
2:28 - left hook to elbow/back of arm
2:17 - Canelo jab parried upwards by GGG but the punch still connected with the top of GGG's head
//Come on mate, really? Wouldnt be scored anything even in the amateurs. Just as effective as one of those no existent probe jabs, but actually not effective at all because it doesn't even look like it even contacts GGG hair let alone head. This is reaching here
2:12 - Canelo lands a solid jab through the guard
/// Seriously... that does not land, it touches GGGs glove. I think you have some perspective issues because this does not land in two videos I've seen..at all. Canelo expels air and I think it has conditioned you into thinking a punch has landed. IN fact I didn't see the right hand follow up from GGG after that. That genuinely look like it landed, and definitely in comparison to this none xistent jab you speak of.
2:06- two jabs, one just out of range, the other parried. *First one connected, 2nd one blocked, not parried
/// Nope, even if it did somewhat connect (which it may have partially) it had nothing in it at all.
2:00 hard to tell if it landed due to the camera angle but Canelo may have landed a stiff jab here in between the guard
/// You can also argue at the same time GGG may have landed a jab as Canelo's head makes a jittery movement
1:58 After blocking a GGG jab, Canelo counters with a quick left hand body shot.
/// 1. it's an arm punch. 2. It's GGGs arm/glove
1:55 left hook to the body
/// Nope, to the elbow, watch again, and in slow mo if you can't see it.
1:40 - desperate left hook does not land *lol "desperate" left hook? are you kidding me, it landed hard and flush below the ear in the neck area
/// 1 there's nothing in that punch 2. it hits GGG forearm/glove before connecting (which it barely if at all connects)
1:34 jab lands to GGG's chin
/// barely connects
1:29 - decent left hook just catches G, bit of a scuffy punch, but lands somewhat (remember Canelo's expelling air) *LOL lands somewhat? It hit GGG square in the nose, GGG lost his balance momentarily, great shot
/// LOL it's a scuffing punch. You do realise there are levels to how clean a punch is...watching it back it looks more on the inside of the gloves. It does land "somewhat". Objectively, it's not that clean of a punch, if it was clean it would have been properly on the knuckles and wouldn't have scraped past his face.. Also, GGG lands a jab like Canelo "did" at 1:34 (and 0:55 which I didn't count)...can hardly score any of these
1:23 - unclear as to whether LH lands cleanly, looks like an inside glove pcunh whilst G partially blocks with elbow...either way it didn't look to have much on it *LOL it clearly landed, foureyes, around the elbow. Had plenty on it.
/// Just wrong tbh...Canelo does this a lot with his inside glove..and not only that Canelo hits Golovkins arm prior to any so called "connection"
1:14 you missed this one - Canelo jab lands - bounces off GGG's forehead
/// if you're going to count this tab jab to his forehead then I suggest we count those two touch right hands GGG throws at 1:17 and the jab at 0:55 which i didn't score. Not scoring punches and wouldn't be scored in amateur let alone pro boxing.
1:10 - left hook does not land *LOL it might have been partly blocked, but it did appear to land at least partly, it moved GGG. We can't see how clean it landed due to the camera angle. You definitively claim "it did not land" you don't know that, you WANT to believe it didn't land. We can't know for sure due to the camera angle. GGG felt it, it had some mustard on it.
/// don't understand how this is funny, the camera angle is dodgy but with the angle of both fighters and Golovkins arm position I can confidently say this did not land. I've
1:02 - lands a right hand after G right hand as noted above
0:58 - elbow *you're probably right here that it hit elbow, but can't see for sure due to camera angle
/// can clearly see this lands on the elbow in slow motion
0:54 Clean jab lands by Canelo, bounces off GGG's forehead. You missed this.
///not clean or impactful by any measure, touch jab
0:46 - jabs don't land, jab to the chest barely touches
0:41 - hard to see left hook, hits elbow *Yes, you're right here, this one hit elbow
0:37- clean jab *great jab here, hard to miss this one
/// good call, although GGG lands a jab at the same time...remember...Canelo is expelling air
0:35 Canelo lands another clean jab you missed this, GGG responds with a jab that hits just below Canelo's chin
0:22 left hook to body, absorbed partly by upper arm (not elbow)
0:18 - jab then misses slapping combo *the 2-punch combo after the jab, a left then a right, both land to the head
/// the first jabs lands, GGG lands right hand I missed this...2 punch combo after does not land...nothing in the punches from either fight
0:09 You totally missed the huge counter right hook by Canelo, lands hard right on the chin as GGG was leaning forward, spectacular punch
/// are you being sarcastic? one Canelo is off balance and throwing an arm punch and two it doesn't connect

 

Golovkin's punch at 1:43 landed solidly and was far cleaner than anything Canelo landed. Your argument that the forearm nicked some of the impact is pretty futile too as it actually looks like it lands clean on the knuckles and on Canelo's jaw. 2:50 punch was more inside gloves than knuckles and on the neck just below ear..GGG punch at 1:43 is objectively far more clean and of scoring punch quality.

Are you taking the **** with this so called landed punch at 9 seconds at the end of the round? 1. little evidence of it landing. 2. the punch had absolutely nothing on it, at alll. Canelo threw an arm punch whilst off balance ffs, Golovkins flick jab off balance looked more impactful right after...It's not really debateable which punch was the cleanest/hardest and it was 1:43. You've got to be really licking Canelo's ass to give him that or just not clued up on what a clean scoring blow is.

Again, despite your attempt, Golovkin does land more cleaner punches in this round. Congratulations others have scored round 6 for Canelo...guess what..the majority of people are casuals. It's funny how you say no one else agrees me, yet you have yet to provide any solid case for Canelo winning round 6.

 

Just wanted to make some corrections and additions with some screencaps :
Canelo:
1:34 jab lands to GGG's chin
/// barely connects
**You claim this "barely connects". This in fact connects with force to GGG's chin, it shakes GGG and moves him. Take a look :

https://imgur.com/a/RnCbAaK


0:46 - jabs don't land, jab to the chest barely touches

**You claimed the jabs don't land. The first jab clearly landed and with some force. Here's a screenshot proving it:

https://imgur.com/a/y5eRm4N

From the screenshot, you can see that clearly that's a connect and was impactful.


Here's a shot that I forgot to mention as another connect by Canelo - a counter uppercut with 31 seconds left. It didn't land clean or with much force, but it did appear to connect to the side of G's face as he was trying to avoid it :

https://imgur.com/a/DlSWm64

The punch had plenty on it, granted it's hard to see due to the camera angle. Here's a screencap of it :

https://imgur.com/a/o3YBd2c

A bad camera angle but it looks like a powerful shot, particularly because GGG was leaning in which increased the impact. It surely wasn't blocked. I'm not going to claim it was harder than your 1:43 hook by GGG due to the camera angle, but it was a definite scoring shot and had some power on it.

 

It was a great shot by GGG, I agree it lands solidly, I'm just pointing out that it nicks the glove on the follow through. Generally speaking, hooks that have to be placed around a blocking glove don't generate as much power or impact as a punch that is thrown at full power without having its trajectory placed around a blocking glove. It landed with force and impact, but it wasn't as clean or as hard as the over the top right hand landed in the previous round (round 5 @ 2:05 on the clock) by Canelo. However in the 6th round, Canelo didn't have a clearly-seen shot as hard or as clean as that big right hand that he landed in Round 5, so I think you make a fair argument that this punch at 1:43 could be considered the best punch of the round. I'm not saying you're wrong about that, but I'm pointing out that it wasn't as good as the big right hand from Canelo the previous round. And I'm also pointing out that unlike in Round 5 (where Canelo's shot at 2:05 was clearly far and away the best punch of the round), in Round 6 GGG's best shot was more comparable with some of Canelo's.

You're not exactly Mr. Objective, that's your interpretation. I'm not taking a stance either way on this. You make a reasonable argument that that's the cleanest and hardest punch of the round. I'm saying it's about as good as several of Canelo's hard shot, where you can't say about the previous round and other rounds where Canelo's best punch was far and away no-doubt-about-it the hardest cleanest punch of the round. Also there was no crowd reaction whatsoever to this shot from GGG at 1:43. That doesn't mean it didn't land hard or clean (I agree it did), but it wasn't eye-catching to the crowd or to the judges, which you need for a single big shot to swing a round in which you are outlanded.

Your sexual innuendos suggest that you're not being objective, that you're coming from a place of anger or emotion. We're engaged in a productive review of the round, and despite your brass comments, you have put some genuine effort into this and I've thrown your plenty of bones here. Lets keep it civil and respectful.

You trying to turn the tables on me here is comical. I will remind you that you are in the clear minority trying to argue that GGG won the 6th round in the rematch. I have yet to find a single poster that gave this round to GGG. As I pointed out, all 3 judges gave this round to Canelo. Compubox has Canelo landing 7 more punches. These things don't "prove" taht Canelo won the round, but it does mean that the onus isn't on me to *prove* that Canelo won this round. Everyone except you agrees that Canelo won this round. I appreciate your passion though, you're trying to make a compelling argument but you're facing an uphill battle.

However that's OK, I've gone against the grain and popular opinion plenty of times, so I welcome your passionate arguments. I admitted that you have a fair argument that GGG won round 5. Round 6 on the other hand is a harder argument that GGG won due to G being outlanded and other factors which I pointed out. The case that Canelo won round 6 is pretty obvious. He landed more punches, he started the round fast, setting the pace, he was the constant aggressor, etc. GGG just didn't do enough this round to win it, I know you disagree and are trying hard to make your case. This makes for a lively debate, and I thank you for that.

 

1-0-1 Canelo

 

1:34 yes and I'm correct by saying it barely connects watch the actual clip of it on bt sport channel. That image you sent me doesn't show anything or indicate whether it lands. And actually, now that you mention it, watching this clip back GGG actually lands a jab at the same time as Canelo barely connects. However, both have nothing in it. If you're gonna score nothiing jabs that barely connect for Canelo then I'm going to count the 5 or 6 barely connecting jabs from Golovkin. You're not making a strong argument for your case.

0:46 did you watch these two jabs back properly, watch in slow mo and normal..if you're scoring any of these as clean jabs by any criteria then you are simply reaching.

0:31 Are you serious? In no way does this make contact, slow motion or normal speed...and Canelo gets out of balance from throwing it. If you're scoring this as any kind of scoring punch then I don't know what to say to you.

0:09 - go back to the clip.. watch in normal speed and slow motion, you can clearly see Canelo's hook hits Golovkins glove ...how many times do I have to say this, it's not a scoring punch

The pictures you've linked do not in anyway prove a clean punch landed

In summary, these so called landed punches are not scoring punches or make a very weak case for being so. You confidently claim the punch at 0:09 "definitely landed" but this is so far from the truth it's basically being disingenuous.

 

We're not talking about round 5. Round 6, GGG landed the cleanest blow by a margin at 1:43. Yes, but the hook landed clean and there is no evidence it's power was knocked back by a glove as it doesn't hit the glove. It lands clean, and you can see this in normal speed and slow motion (0.25/0.5x). WATCH IT 0x25 speed youtube!! Canelo even does a little stumble. Canelo's best shot's were inside glove shots that 1 hit the neck (2:50) and 2 clearly did not land clean (just watch it, it lands but it's objectively a scuff inside glove punch - where it scuffs GGG face). It's not slapping it's boxing. Is your argument really going to rest on this.

I'm being far more objective than you in my analysis. Look if Canelo had outlanded him with cleaner punches I'd concede, but he doesn't do that.

Trying to turn the tables on you? No I'm being objective and your claim to being right about round 6 in your paragraph is just delusion. It's like someone cutting off your legs in battle and as you bleed out you shout "I'm winning the fight". The onus is on me to prove that Canelo didn't win round 6 because corrupt/woefully incompetent judges said he won? OK. I'm sorry but you're very naive if you think there is no element of corruption in this sport..and especially with Canelo. You're appeal to the authority of casual masses is a very poor argument.



My argument rests on Golovkin landing the best and better shots during the round which include the right hook behind the guard, 2-3 clean RightHandS. It's also objective that Golovkin landed several more clean jabs than Canelo that rocked Canelo's head back on several occasions. You're argument rests on Canelo two scuff inside glove shots (which no matter how much you deny , were scuff punches), less clean jabs by some margin and hooks to the body to which most land on the hip elbows, and power is significantly taken by the fact Golovkin's arm is positioned to lessen the blow.

You have also claimed several scoring punches which do not land or barely connect. Some of these barely connect punches are countered by Golovkins barely connected punches which would not be scored, as I've mentioned previously, and likewise I've judged both of the impacts equally. You also seemed to be swayed when Canelo hits gloves and clearly expels air as if to heighten any impact. It's also very hard to convey to you what actually constitutes a clean punch, because inside glove (aka slapping) and jabs hitting gloves and chest aren't the best of scoring punches.

You originally claimed that "I have no argument for Golovkin winning round 6" yet not only do I have an argument but one that is significantly more valid than yours. However, no matter how many facts I shove in your face you won't concede because it's clear your ego is too big for you to concede on any matter. If you had provided an actual valid and solid argument I'd consider conceding, but you haven't in any way or form. You're literally lying to yourself by saying things like "the case that Canelo won round 6 is pretty obvious" ..almost as if you are trying to save face

RD 6 - Golovkin

 

I'm a GGG fan, we all know who won the first fight, and the second fight could have went either way, no need to waste your time debating as you can't change the result.

 

Ah yes, arguing with Shadow, where every Canelo punch, even if it bounces off the gloves, is a jaw-twisting, spit-spraying, thunderous power punch. Sometimes even punches that barely connect at all are 'solid hits'. In Shadow's world, Canelo can only blow his nose without knocking himself out because he has the world's XXX adamantium-rated diamond chin to withstand the awesome power of his fists

Shadow at work

 

LOLLLL!!!! I think this is where my problem debating Shadow lies..think I might just debate my wardrobe instead, would probably get a better argument out of it