Who say's the oldtimers were primitive ?

Wow...What a post. Good points raised by all. I'm always at odds whether or not the old style of fighting was better or worse than the modern style or whether boxing has evolved or slipped etc..and I think there isn't a clear cut answer. Boxing han't evolved or "devolved" if you will..Rather, boxing has changed to fit the changes in equipment and rules and purses. Give the modern fighters of today the same gloves and mouthpieces and longer round fights of yesteryear and you would see a change in style similar to the way they fought years ago Fighters today have access to the best equipment to date. Gloves are bigger and better built. More padded and sturdier which protect the hands better so you can let your punches fly. They also have custom fitted mouthpieces made out of the best materials that protect the mouth and cushion blows to the jaw better. Fights are much shorter in duration so there is less emphasis on attrition and more on speed. Athleticism rules today, not fundementals. Watch a basketball game today and see how many players palm the ball and travel....and how few are called for it. It's entertainment after all. The crowd wants to be entertained rules be dammned. Time machine Mayweather 80-100 years ago and make him fight with the equipment of the time in a 25 round fight and you would see a different Mayweather. Better yet make him fight once a month and not every 2 years for millions of dollars against hard nosed hungry animals and you would see a change in style I bet. Boxing changed with the times as did all sports. Take golf for example. Watch Bobby Jones or Gene Sarazin or others from that time swing and compare them to a modern golfer's swing. It's different because the equipment radically changed. Stiffer metal shafts and livlier balls that traveled farther changed the way a golfer approached his game. Boxing is no different. Give Tiger Woods golf clubs from the 20's and 30's and see how his game would change. Give a modern boxer horsehair gloves that were smaller with a strip of cloth for a mouthpiece and make him fight a 25 round bout and you would see a change in his approach I'll bet. Forgive me for rambling but I think I've made some valid points...As did Mr Bienstock as well.

 

Some very valid points, though I think management and promotion have a greater hand in the change than equipment.

 

Though I do believe the game has evolved, one must also consider how the rules and flow of fights differed.

The wider stances and lesser mobility included there in are a direct consequence of the clinch and tight infight being not just elements but fixtures of old school boxing.

Longer fights meant less punches thrown, which directly leads to the selling out you sometimes see, as a connect needs to make an impact, or the effort is wasted.

I think modern fighters fighting in modern rings, with modern refs, and modern judges, easily defeat the champions at old. But I gotta say, reverse it, and I don't know how many of our modern greats are man enough, have the grit and the character, to make it through the meat grinder boxing used to be.

 

That's it........... he's beaten us........ and what a stellar knowledge he displays on Willie Ritchie,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I bet he could pick the winner of a Duran Vs James "Deaf Un" Burke just as easy................ That's it folks we have the winning poster,,,,, I have no comeback on him.

 

:rofl

 

Well if there's a "Random Awkward Shufflr".................. I never realised the old fighters were bad fighters....... One things for sure,,,,,, those guys beat the crap out of guts like "non Pariel" Dempsey and Tom Sayers...... Nat Langdon... Daniel Mendoza........ I've been watching this Film of "Non Pariel" Dempsey...... he's the slowest fighter I ever saw..... Since I put the picture on........... He does not seem to have moved a Millimetre in hours, It looks like he's throwing a punch.... but very very slow...... Dempsey would be a sitting duck according to the visuals I have........... and Mendoza and Broughton and Bill Richmond..... How'd this lot beat Napoleon ???

 

It always baffles me how "holding hands up high" is often cited as SUPERIOR TECHNIQUE and SKILL, when in fact it always has been (going back literally to ancient greek times) a sign of diminished art and science of boxing.
Novice amateurs would do well to learn to keep their hands high, but for master boxers it truly doesn't lend itself to masterful boxing and punching.
That's not to say that holding your hands below the waist is at all clever, but the peek-a-boo and high-guard positions are actually "primitive".
The artful, scientific boxing has always been about feinting, drawing leads, fooling the opponent into making certain moves, and delivering blows that will render him unconscious - it's not about cowering behind your gloves and letting the opponent wail away at them (although even that may have worked on some occasions).

Having said that, with modern "pillow gloves" it's understandable.

 

Good point about the pillow gloves - at my boxing gym I find it annoying that half the time in sparring if my shots are landing on the gloves a lot it's not as a result of the lad I'm sparring actually blocking or parrying very well it just that the gloves are so big that you can barely find a way around them a lot of the time - and it goes vice versa aswell sometimes - I'll feel myself leaning back lazily from a big shot and I'm thinking "Uh-Oh here come the show closer and I'll be saved by my gloves not because I had the wherewithall to block it properly - just because they are so damn big that they sometimes cover a larger area than you think even if you are not getting your hands up as high as you think you should -

ANOTHER BIG THING THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ABOVE ALL THINGS - IS SOMETHING MY GRANDAD USED TO STRESS TO ME - THAT IN THE DAYS OF, AND PRE-DEMPSEY SHOE'S OR FOOTWEAR IN GENERAL (BOXING BOOTS/RING SHOES INCLUDED) HAD LEATHER SOLES - IE NOT RUBBER LIKE NOWADAYS - I REMEMBER AS A YOUNG KID (WHEN I WAS ABOUT 9 OR 10) I SAID TO MY GRANDAD,

"WHY DIDN'T THE OLDEN DAY FIGHTERS GET ON THEIR BIKE A BIT MORE AND DANCE AROUND THE RING A BIT MORE LIKE MUHAMMAD ALI??"

AND MY GRANDAD SQUIRMED AND SAID SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF

"BLOODY HELL!! YOU DIDN'T HAVE RUBBER SOLES ON YOUR SHOES LIKE YOU DO NOWADAYS!! I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY EVEN MANAGED TO KEEP STANDING UP IN THE RING IN THE OLD SHOES?? YOU WERE ALMOST SLIPPING OVER EVERY 2 SECONDS JUST WALKING DOWN THE STREET IN THEM - GOD KNOWS HOW THEY MANAGED TO KEEP THEIR FOOTING IN THEM IN A RING ON CANVAS??!!"

THATS WHEN HE DREW MY ATTENTION TO DEMPSEY RUBBING HIS FEET ON THE FLOOR IN HIS CORNER - THERE WAS LITTLE OLD ME THINKING HE WAS DOING IT LIKE A BULL PREPARING TO CHARGE - WHEN IN FACT HE WAS TRYING TO SCRAPE SOME KIND OF GRIP INTO THE LEATHER SOLES OF HIS BOXING SHOES USING RESIN THROWN DOWN IN THE CORNER - EVEN SO MY GRANDAD SAID YOU BARELY HAVE ANY REAL GRIP SO YOU'D HAVE TO BE CAREFUL NOT TO BE SLIPPING ALL OVER THE PLACE IN THERE - WHICH I GUESS 90% ACCOUNTED FOR RESTRICTED USED OF MOVEMENT IN SAY JACK JOHNSON'S DAY - IT WASN'T UNTIL I WAS MADE AWARE OF THIS THAT KNOW WHEN I WATCH AN OLDEY-WORLDE BIT OF FOOTAGE I CAN SEE FROM THE WAY THEY MOVING THAT THEY'RE BEING EXTRA CAREFUL WITH PLANTING THEIR FEET - WHICH MAKES IT A COMPLETELY WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME