Who should be higher P4P?

The resume of Calderon is hard to define, as most wouldn't have a great knowledge of the level of fighters within that division.

However, Calderon has faced tough opponents in recent times. Other defences that i have seen have also been against world class oppponents, regardless of their notoriety.

 

I definitely think Guzman's top wins over Soto, Barios, Jandaeng, Sanchez to be better than Calderon's win over Cazares. Calderon has ruled a single division longer, but it's one of the shallowest divisions in the sport, and he hasn't even faced the longest reigning champion today, Yutaka Niida.

Guzman seems to me to be an overall better, more versatile fighter, capable of proving himself at more weights.

 

Calderon as this point. Guzman seems to have hit a dry spell since leaving 122.

 

Jandaeng and Sancez are pretty average opponents, epecially considering Sanchez was getting on from memory in his fight vs Guzman.

Minimum weight is very hard to properly evaluate, and since the fighters aren't very well known, it would appear to be a shallow division. I am not so quick to rule these guys out though. Having watched defences that Calderon has made, his skill and craft especially earlier in his career was brilliant, and his opponents still for the most part appeared world class.

Guzman's resume clearly lacks depth. Should he get a nice win over Campbell, i would put him ahead. But at the moment, there just isn't enough there to give him the nod.

In terms of talent though, and future (Calderon is getting on now), Guzman would certainly appear to be superior.

 

Guzman has my vote . . . Calderon being a P4P just doesn't suite my taste.

After seing him run like a headless chicken to survive a fight for robbery decission.? No way! :-(

 

Guzman has not fought since his solid performance against Soto in 2007, wheras Ivan Calderon has only fought once since 2007.


I give the edge to Guzman, but he better get back in the ring soon. It depends on whether he gets a fight scheduled within the next month, and how Calderon performs in his rematch with Cazares, who gave him some trouble in their 2007 match (won by Calderon).

So for now, Guzman.

Next month, I don't know.

 

I give it to Guzman. I believe I currently have him at #9 on my p4p list and Calderon at #11 though, so its close. Calderon is also on the downslide of his career imo. I think Solis ko's him at this point

 

Calderon

 

Guzman is a much better fighter H2H and has much more impressive, dominant performances against better competition in recent years.

I respect Calderon a lot and like him, especially since the guy is small (even for a 105 pounder) and he developed a style that made him highly effective against much larger fighters. However, his resume doesn't really have that much depth if you want to compare it side by side with Guzman's. IMO, 14 defenses of the title don't really mean anything when they're against fighters no better than B- level. Erdei has around 10 defenses already, yet he doesn't deserve to be ranked high at all because none of the opponents he beat were better than B- level. The only difference is, Erdei gets trashed for being protected, but Calderon gets away with fighting anybody he wants to because nobody knows any fighters at his weight and they respect his amazing boxing ability, unlike Erdei's mediocre ability. Guzman could have "ruled his division" too, if the other titlists at 122 or 130 didn't avoid him. And anyways, Calderon isn't ruling anything at 108 right now. Cazares will fight even worse in the rematch than last time too IMO, I'd rather see Calderon fight someone else.. but that's a different discussion.

Also, Barrios/Soto are significantly better fighters than anyone Calderon has ever faced, it's not even close. Just look at how Calderon performed against someone like Esquer, who's basically a 108 pound, much sloppier, less talented, and less intelligent version of Barrios. If it was really a pressure fighter on Barrios' level that night, Calderon would have most likely lost the fight.

 

I agree. Soto was grossly overrated though i dont know why...I saw nothing in him. People compared him to a prime Morales...

Having said that however, dont you think though that Barrios & Soto are probably more impressive of an opponent, if not equal to Calderons top opponents?

I pick Guzman overall.

 

Calderon moved up and struggled, Guzman has moved up several times and utterly outclassed opponents each time.

 

They're nothing special, but neither are guys like Dieppa or Esquer, or a guy like Ronald Barrera, who Calderton struggled badly with. Cazares is his best win(another fight in which he struggled in) and doesn't quite stack up to Guzman's top wins over Soto, as well as Barrios.

His skill and craft is undeniable vs the right type of opponent, but(and I evaluated him in a different thread similarly) he struggles with the pressure types, and is somewhat limited in what he can do. It's not so much the competition in the lower weights, but Straw-Weight has never been a deep division, and he hasn't even faced the second best fighter in the division over the last few years in Yutaka Niida. It's more his competition being soft.

Guzman's resume lacks depth, but Calderon's resume lacks quality in general, aside from Cazares at 108. And has been mentioned, Guzman has looked better stepping up to higher weights, and is the more versatile fighter head to head.