Who should rank higher all time ? Norton or Walcott ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Jul 16, 2021.

  1. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If you’re placing Norton top 20 obviously that’s placing him amongst the best ever. You’re a waste of time. You’ve done nothing but attempt to put words in my mouth. Extremely dishonest.

    I’d rather judge fighters on their wins then fighting nobodies and attempting to judge where they stand off that. It’s not rocket science. I’ve mentioned LHWs with great Hw records. The likes of Loughran Moore and Johnson embarrass someone like Norton. The fact that they’re LHWs means nothing when they’ve accomplished so much more at Hw.
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Indeed. The age old maxim that you ARE BIG ENOUGH if you are GOOD enough has to count when the evidence shows they legitimately CLIMB the HW ratings. You can’t disregard the HW achievements of guys like Moore, Macim, Bivins, Bettina, Conn and Charles just because they were first light heavyweights. Nobody does that with Patterson or Holyfield.
     
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  3. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And that early loss was not very clean either. The 8th round had ended, so Norton stopped fighting. Only the referee was turned around which Garcia noticed, at which point he unloaded on an unsuspecting Norton. Very dirty and low individual.
     
  4. djanders

    djanders Well-Known Member Full Member

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    IMHO, head to head, Norton has a good chance. As for ranking, I'd rank Walcott higher.
     
  5. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I have a lot of respect for you, @Gazelle Punch but I just don't agree with a lot of this. I imagine Johnson would have gotten the better of Ken, sure.

    I feel like you're taking some of this personal and I'm not sure if it's meant that way.

    You're a valuable contributor here, my friend.
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah I let him rub me the wrong way. I’ll have a cranberry juice and get over it.

    I don’t hate Norton I really dont. Maybe it rubs me the wrong way how some fighters are so over analyzed and some get a free pass? Who knows but I def don’t see Norton top 25. I don’t think it’s an insult to be top 40 though as some have taken offense to that opinion.

    Also thanks and same to you!
     
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great point mate.
     
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  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I told you i'd have Norton 20-25. Why are you firstly assuming i have him at 20 and secondly trying to belittle that viewpoint? I'll have you know there are some very good posters in here that have Norton somewhere around that 20 mark. We also have a certain mod that's made a well known list or two that has him very very near to that 20 mark. He also judges how you do with a mix of resume and H2H. I'll happily sit beside such waste of time posters.

    After what happened in the Maxim thread today it's pretty obvious we have an extremely dishonest little character in our midst. Again, and again and again.
     
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  9. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Bobick doesn't have much in the way of wins to suggest he would be dangerous in that era. What is there on film or in the way of wins to back up such an assessment?
     
  10. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I never heard that. Although I did hear Norton was knocked down three times in the fight. Despite it being competitive.
     
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  11. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You’re a liar and strange guy. I get it your world view of a fighter you love is challenged and you don’t like it. I don’t converse with liars and don’t call me one for not breaking down every fighters history, age, weight, sexual preference for a forum. Do your own homework and point it out to others if you think it’s a fair point. This is my last response to you.
     
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Gazelle's been on a right streak recently: Walcott 20 places above Norton; Satterfield KOing Foster? Y'know, I think he might have a bias towards a certain era.
     
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  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronsonville Full Member

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    ???
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    I think this actually a very interesting comparison, and while it's close enough to argue either way, there's a definitely man ahead IMO. I have about five places between them, so certain enough to rearrange the list and end up with one higher than the other, but at the same time, enough thought went into it to where I'd not only have one above the other, I thought there was enough of a gap to squeeze in another four guys (Sharkey, Baer, Wills and Byrd - in that order - FYI).

    I have Walcott slightly higher.

    For me, his résumé is more impressive and the work he did as a top contender - if a bit flaky - is also incredible. His wins over Maxim, Bivins, Charles, Ray, Schkor, Hoff, Murray, Sheppard, Johnson, Baksi, etc; are all impressive to some degree. Obviously you have some there which are great, and you have some which are merely decent - but either way, it's a very deep resume. Especially for somebody with only one title defence. Which is a another feather to Walcott's cap that Norton doesn't have, is that he was lineal champion. And not just that, but he produced one of the most bruta KOs every to take it from a top fifteen heavyweight ever (IMO, obviously). Whereas Norton was made champion in retrospect, albeit coming off a very good win over a very good contender.

    Norton's resume (as already said) is a bit thin by comparison. Sure, Ali is a collosal win and better than any of Walcott's, but I don't think that lonesome win is enough to overtake Walcott's whole package. Bobick, Quarry, Young, Cobb, Garcia. They're not bad, but they don't really stack up against Walcott's record IMO. Now, if you want to give him a second win against Ali, that's fair enough, but I'd argue by the same token, you'd be hard pressed to not give Walcott a win vs a similarly-aged Louis and take away Norton's win vs Young. I see no case for Norton to claim a win over Holmes, though.

    And yes, while Norton didn't lose twenty times like Walcott did, he also didn't have half the challenges in front of him in terms of overall opposition, and physical issues outside of the ring. The only losses I would find fair to hold Walcott accountable for, and even then to varying degrees, would be: Allen, Maxim, Ray, Louis II, Charles I & II, Layne, and Marciano I. Yeah, it's a lot, but let's not pretend like Norton's record is unassailable. He also lost to Garcia while green, and was ironed out twice, failing to make the end of the first vs Cooney and Shavers. Not saying they should be held against him massively, but I think it's important to mention them before anybody gets carried away with Walcott's losses.

    Head-to-head's a different matter, but in short, Walcott impresses me a lot more in a vacuum, but I think Norton's size and style are extremely problematic for him.
     
  15. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Spending far too much time with Donald Curry.
     
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