Who the hell were Wilders first 21 opponents?!!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by KingFury64, Apr 2, 2018.


  1. MVC!

    MVC! The Best Ever Full Member

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    Kelvin Price was one of the goods, many expected him to win vs Wilder.
     
  2. Lith

    Lith Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cool thing about Boxrec is you can check their historical "ratings". Might just check the other top ten guys to see how many fights they needed to get a rating sufficient to get into the current top 30:

    Kubrat Pulev: 5
    Anthony Joshua: 9 (gets to 24th)
    Joseph Parker: 9 (gets to 25th)
    Alexander Povetkin: 10
    Luis Ortiz: 13
    Dominic Breazeale: 15
    Adam Kownacki: 16
    Jarrell Miller: 17
    Dillian Whyte: 20
    Deontay Wilder: 25

    Joseph Parker and Anthony Joshua both held and defended titles, and took part in unification by the time they'd had the amount of fights Wilder needed in order get into the current top 30 based off the quality of opposition he'd been beating.

    The man Wilder fought on that break through fight would currently be outside of the top 250 based off his rating at that time.
     
  3. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    on the
    Yeah well, that kind of happens when you're a Gold Medalist at the 2012 LONDON Olympics, an undeserving one at that, you tend to get pushed as hard as humanly possible and most importantly fast tracked. Especially when it comes at a time where Boxing is on the upswing in the UK.

    Whereas Wilder was a Bronze Medalist at the 2008 Beijing Olympics, at a time when Americans probably didn't even realize boxing at the Olympics existed, that's just how out of touch we are here. No one cared then, and Wilder turning pro barely made a ripple, same goes for Spence Jr. or even Andre Ward who won gold. Boxing was dead in this country when he turned pro, and even now, its only marginally more popular than it was then, and that limited popularity only applies to a handful of fighters.

    Its pretty easy to become a megastar when your promoter puts you on TV from your opening match, on PPV cards and huge TV broadcasts, however its hard to get top opponents when the majority of your early matches either aren't on TV, or in bingo halls and night clubs and usually on the untelevised portion of undercards. Every other HW in this country have followed a similar path, only they failed to distinguish themselves with sensational KO's, whereas Wilder has.
     
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  4. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    This is actually a very good respond for defending Wilder! Thank You.

    But then I throw a quick look at his record, sees the 11'th name on it...

    Checkmate...
     
  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Wow, he fought fat bums in his first 20 fights! Really! No ****. That's what HW's do here.

    IIRC his first televised match was against Manswell, and then he followed that up with two undefeated prospects McCreary and Price, and from that point he took on a series of guys that were around the level or AJ's first 12 opponents or better.

    So Checkmate to you, in America you don't matter until you get on TV, so Wilder made his TV debut in 2012 around the same time as Joshua, so in reality, their rise to prominence has followed a similar pattern, only with Wilder get far less publicity.

    Wilder's real pro career started in his 24th match. The rest was wasted time. He was never meant to be a star or had any fanfare, he made himself one though through sheer force of will.
     
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  6. vnyc

    vnyc Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    You are obsessed with wilder.
     
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  7. DynamicMoves

    DynamicMoves Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Why does it matter so much to you guys how many fights a fighter took before they got to the top?
    When did this narrative come about anyways?
     
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  8. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Funny how folk have a go about AJ getting dropped by Wlad without realising that Wilder came within a whisker himself of losing to Ortiz.
    I gave him credit for Ortiz win but it’s funny how others look it,not sure if it was Bunce or someone on his radio show who thought that with Wilder coming within a whisker of losing to Ortiz that it could have an effect on his bargaining power v AJ.
    That’s not how I’d look at it,I thought that win gained Wilder some respect and raised his profile.
     
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  9. Devon Dog

    Devon Dog Member Full Member

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    Who the hell were Wilders first 21 opponents

    The old boys up my nans old peoples home say they had some good pay days from fighting a yank
     
  10. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It doesn’t really,Wilders way to the top was the old fashioned way of doing it whereas AJ was brought on quicker purposefully,none are wrong imo.

    It’s like with Joe Joyce who isn’t young so they looking for the short game with him and will look to step him fast,all depends if the promoter wants to do it the long game way or short game.
    Ramírez is another example,could of fought in the super middleweight comp recently but Arum wanted to hold him back some more before letting him go I think.
     
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  11. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Up until recently though Wilders resume must of been some record for the amount of wins without facing top twenty competition,most his resume consists of unranked guys and those outside the top 100-200 even.
    Prior to Ortiz his best win was Stiverne who I couldn’t even find on box recs rankings this time
     
  12. here2stay

    here2stay Barxing banned Full Member

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  13. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Let's give this narrative a try shall we? Like BC and AD, there's BTV and ATV.

    So let's apply the standard set for AJ, being a megastar in the media eye since turning pro and apply it to Wilder, only thing that matters are their televised matches.

    Wilder's resume.
    Luis Ortiz
    Bermane Stiverne
    Gerald Washington
    Chris Arreola
    Artur Szpilka
    Johann Duhaupas
    Éric Molina
    Bermane Stiverne
    Jason Gavern
    Malik Scott
    Nicolai Firtha
    Siarhei Liakhovich
    Audley Harrison
    Matthew Greer
    Kelvin Price
    Damon McCreary

    Joshua's resume
    Joseph Parker
    Carlos Takam
    Wladimir Klitschko
    Éric Molina
    Dominic Breazeale
    Charles Martin
    Dillian Whyte
    Gary Cornish
    Kevin Johnson
    Raphael Zumbano Love
    Jason Gavern
    Michael Sprott
    Denis Bakhtov
    Konstantin Airich
    Matt Skelton
    Matt Legg
    Hector Avila
    Dorian Darch
    Hrvoje Kisicek
    Paul Butlin
    Emanuele Leo

    Now clearly AJ has fought 2 opponents that are world class in Wlad and Parker, and two scratching world class with Takam and Whyte. But after that, there's Breazeale Martin and Molina who are decent, and the rest are absolute crap.

    So that's
    Two beastly wins.
    Two solid wins.
    Three decent wins.
    Fourteen crap wins.

    Whereas Wilder has one world class opponent in Ortiz, two opponents in Duhaupas and Stiverne (first time) scratching world class, and then you have Szpilka, Washington, Arreola, Molina, Scott and Liakhovich who are decent.

    So that's
    One beastly win.
    Two solid wins.
    Six decent wins.
    Six crap wins.

    So when it comes to measuring each man's resume based on their time spent in the spotlight, take out Wlad, and they're pretty ****ing close to even.
     
  14. Angler Andrew

    Angler Andrew Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Certainly not a millions miles out are they,Ortiz and Wlad were both close to being 50/50 fights and with Parker I said before that I never thought it was close to 50/50 despite his record.
     
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  15. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    Nope, not in the least, that's why this whole narrative annoys the **** out of me, they're applying a ridiculous standard to Wilder that quite frankly didn't even exist when he turned pro, not to say some excellent fighters in the past haven't been fast tracked, but not quite at the rate they're going with many post 2012 Olympic medalists, like Loma, Usyk and of course AJ, in some cases its time's a wasting, and like with AJ, Hearn is just trying to get as much bang as humanly possible for his buck.

    They're records are fairly similar if applied to the amount of time they've both spent being the "elite" in their division.

    As far as Parker goes, I always saw it as 50/50, but I am a Parker fanboy, so... :lol:
     
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