Who thinks Frazier was a slob at 224 pounds for Foreman in '76?

I forget the purses but attended the fight. It was a non-title fight between 2 big names with a lot to lose for the guy not getting the W. The crowd was about 90% Frazier 5% Foreman and 5% didn't care. That's a misconception or forgotten or neglected important facet of those early Foreman fights; the guy was more often not the crowd favorite. A fair amount of folks were picking Joe in the upset due to George's previous 2 outings against Ali and Lyle.

That's something you don't see often and almost always you see a cheering crowd get behind their guy & that momentum most assuredly counts for something. Foreman was the rare breed that really didn't have that kind of advantage.

 

That's what I was betting on.

But there was a contingent of folks picking Joe in this. A lot of people thought Foreman was ruined after the Ali fight and would never recover. A guy ready to be taken and very vulnerable. If you bought into that, the Lyle bout kind of confirmed things. If you didn't buy into it, it was hard to explain/justify that Lyle bout.

The main reasons I really liked the Foreman chances were his ability to cut off the ring on guys. Extremely underestimated. Where was Joe going to go in there? And the shoving to get guys right where he wanted them. What those 2 things did was to put a guy in position for those Foreman uppercuts. Either hand and not telegraphed and thrown off the wrong foot even and devastating. To beat a Foreman, I always thought it had to be a guy difficult to hit w/ uppercuts. Take that best punch away.

So Joe came out and fought a survivors fight for a little bit but it sure felt like the wall was going to cave in on the guy. Just a matter of time & kind of like the Tyson--Tyrell Biggs fight or Lewis--Morrison. It was a case of the one guy doing everything he could to stay in there with the opponent but you just felt that the ballgame was going to be over soon and those tactics were simply not going to hold up for 3 minutes a round. You can sense it and feel it at the fights and that's an experience you don't always get catching it on the tube.

 

The ideal time for Frazier to retire would have been after his victory over Ali. Retired undefeated (he never added much to his legacy after that) and he'd have pissed off the man he hated, Ali...by refusing a rematch.

Frazier's was not a style that was destined to last. He took some hellacious punishment in Manila and vs Foreman twice. (not to mention some pointless defenses in between).

His body had had so much punishment and he had a lengthy stay in the hospital after FOTC...due to underlying health problems as well as the punishment he took. Hell, he fought Foreman II wearing contact lenses, if I remember correctly! Frazier has been damaged by too many fights.

Frazier (and Ali) could have earned millions more by accepting a % of the takings deal for FOTC. To be fair, I suppose the money paid up front he and Ali got was more than any other fighters had ever been paid before; so I can see why they grabbed the losing option.

Imagine if Ali had retired after regaining the championship against Foreman in Zaire. I'm sure he wouldn't be nearly as damaged as he is today.

As fans, I know it would be a loss not to have the incredible clash of the Titans in Manila...but for the sake of their health, both men should have been out of the game by then.

 

He looked in better shape than ,Johnson,Sanders, Williams, Peter,Gomez and Arreola did against Vitali :good

 

Can millions compensate you for a scrambled brain?

As I said, he (and Ali) lost quite a few million by not choosing to take a % of the FOTC revenue, instead of a flat fee.

Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing...

 

He looked out of shape even when he only weighed 10 pounds above his FOTC weight; now he was another 10 pounds on top of that. How fat would he have needed to get in order to qualify as "grossly out of shape" in your mind?