Who Thinks Jack Johnson Could Step Out Of A Time Machine And Fight For A Belt?

Johnson was no Ruiz. Johnson had quick reflexes, good had speed and decent power. His problem was he wasn't very active, and proabably was not durable enough to take heavyweight bombs. I think Johnson is good enough to be one of the champions today, but I also think he'd lose his share and would not be viewed as the #1 heavyweight in the world today.

 

3 of the champs arnt all that powerfull

 

This is a tough call because of lack of good clear footage,so I have to also take into consideration what the old experts say who thought very highly of him.
On film the flaws I see in Johnson are very little jabbing,chin held high and only a wide slap for a left hook. But by the same token the man beat just about everyone put infront of him.
Fighting is fighting not a whole lot changes in that so I'll say yes he could step into any era and do very well.

 

In what fights have you seen him being a hybrid of Joe Louis and Gene Tunney?

Lewis pretty much shut Holyfield (a great) down with the jab when he choose to do so.


Wlad has a great, great jab. A master boxer like Byrd couldn't get around it and lost all 17 rounds. His jab is accurate, powerful and sets the right up perfectly.

I've never seen Johnson deal with a good jab, they didn't use jabs all that much back then because boxing was still coming off the bareknuckle style.


Johnson did most of his work in the clinches and by wrestling and throwing uppercuts. Most referees do not allow this and i think he'll be taken apart from a distance.

I do think he could beat the best middleweights, cruiserweights and lightheavies of the world though.

 

You're bang on the money with this post. Some excellent points- not many fighters in HW history nevermind the current era would have an easy night against Johnson, much the opposite in fact. The disrespect for the guy in this thread is unbelievable :-(

Johnson would likely beat many of the contenders in the current division with not much problem. The Klitchko brothers, Peter and Byrd could potentially give him tricky moments however I wouldn't make any of these guys favourite against a ring master as great as Johnson was.

 

You mean the same Evander Holyfield who knocked Riddick Bowe silly (well, sillier than normal) and couldn't come close to putting him away simply because he couldn't let his hands go? THAT Evander Holyfield who was years older when he fought Lewis?

That's because Wlad could jab at will - Byrd couldn't threaten him with any power to make Wlad hesitent to keep the jab in his pocket.

There's a lot we never got to see with Johnson - that's why the entirety of this thread is pure speculation. But we do know that Johnson wasn't a robot. He was a natural athlete and a smart boxing mind, so it's not inconceivable that he could find a way around Wlad's jab.

Because he would only fight in the clinches, right? No room for adaptation from Johnson?

Those divisions are as talent weak as the HW division.

 

No, but he was a great fighter nonetheless. Walcott was 37 when Marciano beat him, but it was still a win over a great fighter for Rocky.
Holyfield lost a step in speed and workrate but gained one in wisdom. That's how he beat Tyson.

Partially true. But let's be honest here; it wasn't Byrds lack of power that stopped him from having succes, it was the fact that he couldn't land consistently enough on Klitschko. Otherwise he could've at least banked a few rounds, but he never did.
Wlad could jab at will because of the physical advantages he had over Byrd. And by that i don't just mean his size, but also the fact that he has very good footwork and speed despite his size. A guy like McCline is a lot easier to beat because he has size but not the athletic talent. Wlad has size and the athletic talent.

And if Byrd were to fight middles and lightheavies, he'd look a hell of a lot more powerful.

It's certainly not inconceivable. But i wouldn't put my money on it. The styles back then were completely different and modern fighters have had years to learn to deal with jabs from world class fighters. Johnson didn't.

If we were talking about Jeffries here, i could understand. Footage of him in his prime is **** and rare. But there are several filmed Johnson fights when he was in his prime and he never showed much outside fighting ability, even with the size advantages he enjoyed.

I'm saying his best work would be taken away.

If it were the other way around, i.e. you were not allowed to fight at long range but only on the inside and in clinches, how much of a chance would you give Wlad against Johnson? Very little at best.

The point is that what his style was based on and where he did his best work would be taken away here.

 

Johnson was too static to avoid a piledriver jab from Wlad. He's eat them all day long.

And to answer the original post, if this Johnson had no time to adjust to the differece in the sport, he doesn't beat any top 10 heavweight or cruiserweight. Give him time to change his game to the rules and it's a different story.

Just out of interest, in which fights does Johnson show any combination punches? I really don't think I've seen any special combos.

 

No. Not out of a time machine. If he had access to what has changed about technique since he fought, and today's training and nutrition; I would give him the benefit of the doubt. That would take a couple of years to process, almost like moving from amateur to pro.

 

The reason we don't see Johnson getting jabbed at much was because of the way he stopped them before they got started. Jack would punch his right into his opponent's left bicep, whenever he initiated a jab towards Johnson, jamming the left into a painfully abrupt halt. In his day, he was one of the very few with the refexes necessary to do that. Jack had an extremely aggressive, proactive defense, reaching out to stymie an adversary's hands from getting shots off. He would smother his challengers on the inside, slipping his arms between theirs, and rip uppercuts within the clinches. In an era of endurance ironmen, he wore down other boxers with his wrestling ability. (Don't forget, he originally emerged as a dominate force in battle royales.)

Reportedly, there is a film of Johnson's final significant victory over Pat Lester, a 15 round decision win in a Mexico bull ring, which was shot with a motorized motion picture camera. This footage supposedly displays the more subtle nuances of Jack's defensive movements, even in his late forties. (Actually, with over 100 matches of experience under his belt by then, a frame by frame computer enhanced DVD of this bout could be highly instructive. The records indicate that Johnson was about ten pounds lighter for Lester than he was for Willard, so he was probably in reasonably decent shape for this performance.)

If the championship distance of 15 rounds was restored, Jack would fit right in today. He had over half a dozen 20 round decision wins in his career, and virtually shutout modern sized (non-steroid enhanced) Jess Willard over that distance, completely neutralizing Willard's jab in the process.

Benny Leonard decreed that the best boxers were those who could take a punch, but didn't have to. Lil Artha' did have limited ability to sustain heavyweight punishment to the head and body, and I have seen precious little footage of him in a counterpunching situation. For some reason, I suspect he might be like Orlin Norris or Jimmy Young at their very best. He was generally loose and relaxed in the ring, so he wouldn't be too stressed by today's competition.

 

The raw answer to the question is no, Johnson could not simply step out of a time machine and beat a quality modern HW champion. The reason is that his style was designed for a different time and different circumstances.

Johnson, who as Duo stated above, got his apprenticeship in battle royals, sought to outlast his opponents with minimal risk to himself. Fighting like that would bring success over 20+ rounds but in 12 or even 15, Johnson would drop a decision. He simply wasn't active enough. There is a movement to emphasize aggression and determination to win into the scoring system and this wouldn't help him. Johnson sought to make fools of his opponents by making them miss and frustrating them with clinches and wrestling.

However, I believe that Johnson would be able to adapt his style and eventually do quite well given time. The man was supremely intelligent and was doing things to psyche out his foes that Ali did a half century earlier and at far greater risk. He was also a physical marvel and and had the perfect mentality to be great at any time.

 

If Johnson were to step out of a time machine, he could promptly begin his training by being cast to perform waltzes in Dancing with the Stars. Points would be deducted from him for excessive holding, and he might well get disqualified in modern boxing for using the tactics he did. (In fact, Jack occasionally got into trouble for that conduct during his own era, so it's a virtual certainty he would today.)

To compete at a championship level today (without growth enhancing substances), Jack would probably need to ripped to shreds at 190-195 (as he was against Burns and Flynn), and box as a cruiserweight. That level of conditioning would be necessary for his body to be able to accomodate the demands of a contemporary workrate. At that weight, he might be able to sneak a HW Title win like the Spinks brothers were able to spring on surprised defenders, but I don't know that Jack would be anything more than a transitional champion, if that happened.