Who Thinks Jack Johnson Could Step Out Of A Time Machine And Fight For A Belt?

Anyone see the episode of the animated series, "The Boondocks", where Martin Luther King Jr. emerges from a coma in modern times? I see Johnson's emergence from the hypothetical time machine being similar - Johnson sitting on the couch transfixed by the jiggling buttocks on BET.

 

Jack Johnson would wipe the floor with all heavies to day IMO. He had a skill of reading his opponents and working out their weaknesses, provided he had ample footage to watch of an opponent, i dont see anyone of the hw's beating him

 

great post :good

 

Well, i find it rather weird that all the fights in his prime that are on film show nothing like a hybrid of Louis and Tunney, but in his unfilmed fights he magically did. I never see him nor his opponents utilise the jab or combinations much.

By the way, i'm not doubting his ability or greatness. But boxing has changed a lot in nearly 100 years of changes. You can't ignore that.


About the contemporary accounts, what do you expect? They had never seen anyone so big yet so skilled and they see it in the perspective of their time. How can they critize him for not using much combinations if no one used them? It's not like someone in the 30's would say "gee, it's boring here without television". You don't miss what you don't have. These are things you gotta take into account.

Boxing was still half wrestling back then.

 

Sorry but that sounds a bit like "seeing what you want to see" to me.

Alright, i will rewatch them soon.

My point was that under the circumstances he was unique and well-skilled, but those circumstances no longer exist today.

Perhaps?

And those are smaller weights - they always develop faster than heavyweights.

No offense taken, i will admit that my knowlegde of boxing before the 20's is limited to having seen only Johnson, Willard and Dempsey fights and a few short other fights and sparring sessions on Youtube.

But from what i've seen, this is my judgement.
Little to no jabbing, a lot of wrestling and inside work and not many combinations.

 

Noobs!

Jack Johnson was not just good for his time, Jack Johnson's talent and legacy is, and always will be, timeless.

Johnson was a 6,1, 200lbs man-mountain with 17" guns and a frightening mental strength. He had the kind of fighting experience and nose that could never be forged in the, '1-2, keep your hands up' generic gyms of today. He had a roller coaster journey of a life before he corned Burns and won the title, at which time he famously remarked; "Why, I'd forgotten more about boxing than Burns ever knew".

Johnson was a surgeon in the ring and a pioneer of the sport. He's not just a dude we look back at and go: "Oh yeah, he evolved a lot" - He did things that nobody else had ever done, before or since.

Johnson never made his rep off of beating the white hopes he loved to toy with, his rep came from his complete domination of the very talented and much avoided crop of Black fighters in his day.

During his career he tamed rushing, bull-like brutes (McVea, Burns), and out-manoeuvred tricky, speedy boxers (Denver Ed Smith, Frank Childs).

If Johnson was around today he'd take one look at the division, have a good laugh, and then smoke 'em all in a battle royal.

 

I will, but you hardly need slow-motion to see a jab or a combination.

Heavyweights have always been less skilled than the smaller fighters, regardless of trainers.

Like i said, i'm not rating Johnson low. But there have been a lot of changes in the sport since then. These are things that don't matter for ATG rankings, but they do matter if you think about head to head matchups.

Also something to consider is that humans form their personal preferences (music, favorite fighter, etc) between the age of 17 and 25. Research has shown this. Everyone has some bias and it's usually formed during that life period. Do you think it's a coincidence that a guy like Revolver in his 40's has Ali, Duran and Holmes as absolute all time favorites?

 

There is of course an element of that (though I suspect that Revolver was considerably younger than 40). The same aplies to boxing techniques. People do not only favour the fighters of their youth but also the methods that were prevelant in their youth.

I think that to completely dismiss all these people as sentimental would be as far off the mark as to unquestioningly acept their opinions. Where there are historical biases in observers, contradictions will quickly emerge between them and there will always be sombody in the mix who calls it like it is.

I do not think that changes in boxing technique have always been for the better. I also think that a lot of things get lost and have to be re learned periodicaly.

Finaly I think that certain atributes of a boxer are timeless and irrespective of era. If you show a cerebral fighter from any era footage of the curent heavyweight beltholders they will see their technical limitations and find pleanty to work with.

 

A fighter with Jack Johnson's physical gifts would do well in any era but I agree with some of the posts that say he would have to make adjustments to his style to better compete with todays HW's. In Johnson's day, HW's did do alot of holding/clinching/walking in the clinch etc.. Maybe this was because matches in those days were often scheduled for 20 rounds or more so pacing was more important. Also there were no air conditioned arenas so fights often took place outside under a hot sun. Whatever the reason(s) I think it's fair to say that in today's fast paced world of instant gratification and rampant impatience, Johnson's style would not go over well. People today just would'nt appreciate Johnson's skills, vast as they were. With today's 12 round bouts, Johnson would have to kick it up a notch and get busy sooner or get booed out of the joint or even disqualified. If he can adjust however, I think he would do quite well in this or any era.

 

I think that those who use the Johnson having to adjust argument overplay their hand a little.

Johnson fought no small number of 10 round bouts. A 12 round distence would not be alien and strange to him.

 

JOhnson ,at 37 didnthave any trouble avoiding 6 6 1/4 Willards jab for the first 15rds,and he was certainly comparable in size to todays heavies.