who was a better fighter ? carl williams or tyrell biggs ?

Good post. On paper Biggs had everything needed to be a success but for some reason he just couldn't seem to catch fire.

 

Biggs and Bey may have crossed paths as amateurs. I followed what amateur boxing was televised back then. Bey was fighting in international dual meets on the US team in 1980 (before the boycott of the Olympics). And Biggs was the national AAU champ in 1981. So they may have faced each other coming up (in 1979 or 1980).

There were a lot of personalities and a true star (Mark Breland) on the 1984 Olympic boxing team. And there were a lot of guys who were tough people who just missed out on the team - like Tyson and Ricky Womack. But Biggs was the leader of the team when they all hung out together.

When he turned pro, and his drug problems became pretty evident, seems like a lot of guys wanted to payback or wanted to earn a rep by beating him. So they stepped it up when they faced him.

 

I guess he brought the ambition out in them. Every journeyman wants to beat up on a hotshot Olympian but the odds are usually stacked too hard against them. But Here’s a guy who likes to party. With rumours going around that he’s p!ssing it all up the wall. Those gold medal guys start out with championship money by way of signing on fees and endorsements. Like you say, in boxing circles the drug use would have been well known so journeymen would have felt less like a foregone conclusion when matched against him.. A beatable prospect with a big reputation.

 

Head to Head I would take Carl... Biggs just did not have a strong enough punch in my mind to compete with the top fighters while Carl had respectable power

 

Biggs was more talented, Carl was the better fighter.

 

I think because Biggs was known not to be a big hitter , guys weren't fazed. As you said , so many turned up for Biggs
He was matched tough from fight one.
After the drug rehab after his first pro fight he DID clean his act up re drugs, but he liked a drink and he just had an addictive personality. The Duvas worked on him and got him through to 15 -0 and he had some tough fights along the way. His fight with Mike was strange. He boxed nicely in round 1 but tired quickly and Mike overwhelmed him. He was matched crazily after that and not given steady winnable fights until it was too late.
Incredibly nice guy, probably his biggest regret is he blew all the money.. lives back at home in Philly with his elderly father and works at a local youth centre.

 

I feel with SRL when he mentioned disappointment during the Mike fight. Though Tyrell was a real good fighter at the time, he needed another ten fights, at least a few with contenders. I think the big rush to get him in against the best shot his whole career in the foot.

Had Biggs actually stayed with the game plan he might have taken Mike past four rounds...possibly into Tillis territory. It depends on how many of the shots Mike lands....Tyrell definitely had a limit to his chin.

 

One thing regarding Biggs I've always meant to mention is that I dont think ( like most people seem too) that the Tyson fight ruined him.
Sure , anybody who loses their unbeaten record is gonna be disappointed.
A year later he fought Damiani and Duva said Biggs was in the best shape he'd ever seen him in. It was after this stoppage on a cut that Biggs parted with the Duvas. He then had plastic surgery on his cuts and he never cut again.
He came back from that to lose a fight he should have won against unbeaten ranked 4 Gary Mason before winning 4 fights on the bounce . His performances in those fights ( Occasio and unbeaten Marin on the under card of Tyson/ Seldon, were his best 2 wins in that streak) were on a par with his wins on the way up, this was 3 years on from Tyson hence I dont subscribe to the view that the Tyson fight ruined him.
He then lost a great fight v Bowe...he looked in terrific shape.
Later that year he showed up looking soft bodied and puffy in his face v Lennox and was blown out in 3 rounds.Biggs was tired in round 2 , he was in poor shape. That's the point when he was done.

 

That is an excellent assessment. And I agree with this. I wonder a lot about that opponent selection.

I do remember reading the Duvas knew Biggs was going to fukk up eventually so they knowingly took Tyson earlier than they wanted to. I guess with the problems hanging over him they took that opportunity just because it was there and if he wasn’t quite yet ready, Tyrell was at least dedicated enough at that moment.

Those fights must have paid well. The two in Europe and the title fight with Tyson. I am a bit curious about the Duvas leaving after the Damiani fight. Did they leave because they saw his career wasn’t going to recover from those cuts or was it because Biggs himself only wanted bigger paydays rather than a less lucrative rebuilding period in lower risk fights?

 

If you ask Tyrell those questions you dont get much detail in the answers. Hes very accepting of how it all went. Several years ago I asked him alot of questions but his answers are brief . He also remembers things a little wrong in my opinion eg, he says his biggest disappointment was the Damiani fight , the stoppage, he felt he was winning that fight ..I doubt that very much.
Re .the Duvas , they didnt really want him in the first place , a group of the Olympic guys said they wanted to go as part of a package so they had to have him if they wanted the others . Then after fight 1 came the drugs meltdown/ rehab. Duva put him on a strict program and it largely worked although why they matched him so tough I've no idea. Tillis and Sims inside your first 10 fights is tough .
At that point they were pleased with him then he had a 3 month lay off after the Sims win due to the cracked collar bone , Tyson had turned pro just after Biggs and had nearly 3 times as many fights . They decided to move Biggs on a little quicker and had 3 fights close together against journeyman but he looked poor and it was at this point they contacted Tysons team and started to set up a fight . Snipes and Bey were next as Tysons camp said Biggs needed a couple of names on his resume . The Bey fight was on the Tyson Bonecrusher bill. Biggs suffered a horrendous cut against Bey which stoped him being Tysons next opponent. ( Pink Thomas stepped in ) That cut should've had plastic surgery , it was horrible . That wouldve meant missing the Tyson date so they went ahead without surgery. Incredibly he had a tune up fight against Lorenzo Boyd at the insistence of Tysons management.
Then he fought Mike.
He earned 50 grand $ a time for alot of his fights on the way up.
200 grand $ against Bey . That's alot back then.
1.1 million $ against Tyson.
Those purse were split roughly 3 ways ...The Duvas, Taxman , Biggs .
400 grand from the Tyson fight is the same as around 1 million + in today's money so Biggs made good money.
He had a good signing fee, endorsements, The Duvas paid his rent , training etc..
Once they had the Tyson fight they were well ahead on the investment so I guess were happy to stay with him for another fight. He had a year off , which he spent blowing his money and going through a divorce from his wife. Not sure where the Damiani idea came from as opposed to being built back up or why they parted company after .I dont know what he got paid for Damiani. The italian was unbeaten and they must have paid good money to get Biggs to travel. I guess Biggs felt he would win as he beat Damiani all 4 times they met as amateurs?..Once he lost from the Duva's point of view , Maybe they felt he was never gonna get back to the top from there and there was gonna be more time off for surgery on the scar tissue and that's why they cut him loose ?
I think they went for the Tyson fight when they did because it was there for all to see he could easily have blown it against someone else so why not get the big pay day ?
I always speak up for him but personally I doubt another few fights prep wouldve made any difference . If he'd fought guys like Berbick , Tubbs ( Holmes was touted as a fight for him several times before Larry actually came back) my guess is he would possibly have lost one of those and blew the big payday. Even if he won them I doubt it wouldve prepared him for Mike . Biggs never really corrected his flaws , they stayed right through his career .
He was easy to hit and never seemed to have the stamina to stick and move for long enough.
People say he had a bad chin , which is nonsense . Even against Tyson he went down more through exhaustion, same against Bowe.
Truth is with Biggs , he was good enough to beat plenty of good B level guys but came up short at the top end . In his defence he walked Into a hell of an era.
Had his title shot been versus a Berbick type he may well of won. 15-0 Biggs was a good boxer and growing in confidence, Tyson didnt ruin him but he did ruin the 15-0 version that probably still had a bit of improvement in him , if that makes sense?
I think it's fair to say The Duvas made the right decision to take the Tyson money. Part of a management teams responsibility is to make money for the fighter. I also think they actually thought Biggs had a chance against Tyson.
Once they split , Biggs never joined a top team , he had Jimmy Young in his corner for the Mason fight and then the next few then for the rest of his career , his pal from the Olympic team, Jerry Page ( himself had drug issues ). I just think Biggs reached his level, but to most people he's a huge wasted talent.
I do think various issues outside the ring had a negative effect
To end on a positive I recommend anybody to watch his one armed win over Jeff Sims in only his 9th pro fight , which had it been Muhammad Ali doing that , the fight wouldve gone down in legend. Biggs was amazing that day . Also his bout with Bowe on the way down showed many of his qualities, but also highlighted why he just came up short at the very top end . Hope that answers your questions.

 

Biggs was more talented, but Williams had the stronger jab and was a bit better as a fighter.

 

I always felt the Duvas knew Tyrell had alot of problems and they looked to cash out in a big fight as soon ad possible- hence why they rushed him into Tyson.

 

Agreed.

If he truly was an a#1 talent, main events keeps him. People forget what a powerhouse main events was then with Dan Duva/Lou Duva/George Benton/ that incredible roster of theirs. And just what guy on that strong roster was Biggs going to replace?

 

They were the same level, Biggs and Williams.