Who was best p4p: RJJ and Duran?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, May 19, 2008.


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  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Record: Roy's greatest win is over Toney, no doubt. After that he utterly dominated the division for a long time, but maybe lacked really stiff opposition. He impressed by beating Ruiz at HW when well into his 30's, and have all of his notable losses after going back down. And also Byrd recently showed that losing that kind of weight might be a tricky proposition when you're around 35.

    Duran had his greatest run at LW, where he dominated for a long time, but wasn't undefeated. His greatest win was probably over SRL, and he also put in a good (but losing) effort against Hagler. Has a couple of other good perfomances above his natural weight while past his prime. Was destroyed by Hearns, though.

    Skills/assets: RJJ was one of the most explosive fighters that ever lived and had one of the best set of reflexes as well. He also had good power and great, but unorthodsox, skill. Was almost impossible to hit cleanly in his prime. There are question marks over his chin and durability, though, to a large degree because they were never tested in his prime.

    Duran had one of the best defenses an offensive fighter's ever had, he was also fast and had hands of, you guessed it, stone. He was a relentless machine of detsruction in his prime, and unquestionable one of the most vicious fighters there's ever been. There are no question marks over his chin and durability either, both of which was excellent, but the "no mas"-incident has left a black mark on his mental fortitude that cannot be erased.


    Who do you favour p4p? (I think I know your reply, Stonehands)
     
    Bokaj, May 19, 2008
    Bokaj, May 19, 2008
    #1
  2. Sardu

    Sardu RIP Mr. Bun: 2007-2012 Full Member

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    Duran because he was probably the best fighter ever at always being on the attack and still not getting clipped with many solid shots. Jones had great skills but Duran is more of a quissential warrior IMO.
     
    Sardu, May 19, 2008
    Sardu, May 19, 2008
    #2
  3. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Ive always thought that Duran was perhaps the greatest defensive fighter ever for being so aggressive. Just ask Leonard, who said after the Montreal fight that Duran was tough to hit cleanly. Duran's offense was awesome that night, but his defensive moves are often overlooked throughout the fight.

    Duran without question has the best win, against Leonard. Jones' resume includes Hopkins and Toney. But the facts of the matter are that Hopkins' wasn't in his prime and Toney was weight drained. Toney could hardly throw punches and was breathing heavily after 3 rounds. He put on 17lbs from the weigh-in until fight time. That aside those guys weren't as good as Duran.

    Duran rebounded from setbacks a few times through his career. De Jesus I, Leonard II, and Hearns. Many thought that Duran was finished goods after he quit against Leonard. Don King threw him in the garbage can and his whole country turned against him.

    Jones was physically more gifted and talented than Duran, but overall not as great. Duran is right there with the elite ATG's, Jones is not.
     
    Robbi, May 19, 2008
    Robbi, May 19, 2008
    #3
  4. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I don't think Jones has much to compare to Duran's wins over the likes of Leonard and Cerdan.
     
    Russell, May 19, 2008
    Russell, May 19, 2008
    #4
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But he was undefeated in his prime, though. Should it count against him that there was no Leonard to fight? I don't think even SRR beat such a good opponent as Leonard in his prime, but that doesn't mean that Duran was greater than him. Also, Duran was 1-3 against the three best fighters he faced, Jones was 3-0.
     
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    #5
  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Cerdan was a ripe old age tho.
     
    JohnThomas1, May 20, 2008
    JohnThomas1, May 20, 2008
    #6
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    RJJ was the more talented and if they happened to be the same weight RJJ would be a nightmare for Duran and may even win every round against Duran, may even stop him, yes RJJ was that talented

    Resume wise:

    Duran: Leonard, Buchanon, Dejesus, Davey Moore, Barkley, Cuevas
    RJJ: Toney, Hopkins, McCallum, Virgil Hill, Mallinger, Tarver, Ruiz

    I don't think there is much in it resume wise. Yes Duran has Leonard but RJJ has Toney and BHOPs, which are also great great fighters.
     
    PowerPuncher, May 20, 2008
    PowerPuncher, May 20, 2008
    #7
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I also like to see fighters tested by fire, but it's on the other hard to hold against a fighter that he was too dominant in his prime. Too bad Jones never faced Benn, Eubanks and others, it does take away some from his legacy. Duran is one of the very few who faced just about anyone noteworthy there was to face during his era (Ali's another), and that does count for something IMO, even if his record against the very best he faced isn't that great stats-wise (1-3).
     
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    #8
  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Not true Duran didnt face Pryor, Cervantes, any of the top young 154lbers like McCallum and company

    Eubank did turn RJJ down a few times, the Benn fight should have happened but RJJ dominated Mallinger who beat Benn and was robbed against Benn. When RJJ did fight a young aggressive unbeaten big punching pressure fighter, this is what happens:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6d0WOk-QuU
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6d0WOk-QuU[/yt]
     
    PowerPuncher, May 20, 2008
    PowerPuncher, May 20, 2008
    #9
  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It might very well be Eubanks who ducked Jones, but I would still like to have him on Jones's record. And Benn. Of course Jones most probably would have beaten both, but since he never faced them we'll never know.

    So Duran did duck a couple, huh?
     
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    #10
  11. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I dont know about duck mate, sometimes fights just dont happen, RJJ wanted Eubank before Eubank lost and it was mooted after he did.

    Benn-RJJ was supposed to happen but BEnn was a DK fighter and RJJ wasnt working with KIng for some reason. American-European fights have always been tough to make
     
    PowerPuncher, May 20, 2008
    PowerPuncher, May 20, 2008
    #11
  12. Ezzard

    Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Duran without a shadow of a doubt...

    Duran is a shoo in top 10 p4p fighter of all-time. Nobody over the age of 30 has Jones in a p4p top 10.

    The records do not stand up against one another.
     
    Ezzard, May 20, 2008
    Ezzard, May 20, 2008
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Duran. I have Duran at #8 or #9 and Jones at #21 or #22.
     
    McGrain, May 20, 2008
    McGrain, May 20, 2008
    #13
  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Please elaborate. Duran probably has somewhat better wins, but he also have more losses when reasonably close to his prime.
     
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    Bokaj, May 20, 2008
    #14
  15. Mantequilla

    Mantequilla Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Duran was just an unskilled slow brawler, who was only ever effective if you stood right in front of him.

    Certainly no James Toney.
     
    Mantequilla, May 20, 2008
    Mantequilla, May 20, 2008
    #15
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