Who was better - Peter Jackson or James Corbett?

So your saying he was just like Sullivan?

 

When he fought Kilrain ,Slavin was past his sell by date. After losing to Jackson Slavin was stopped by
Hall
Armstrong
Kilrain
O Donnell
From CBZ
-Slavin disliked [url]Jackson[/url] intensely; Following the loss to [url]Jackson[/url],
Slavin took to heavy drinking; As a result, his health and fighting
skills deteriorated quickly

Unlike Sullivan, Slavin had no William Muldoon to threaten him with a baseball bat if he didn't stay off the hooch,hence there was," no second act ,"for Frank.

 

The only one of those men who was contemporary with Sullivan, in any meaningful sense was Godfrey.

Now Sullivan beat Kilrain himself with gloves, so if Kilrain defeated Godfrey twice, then it is hard to see how Godfrey could be better than the gloved fighters that Sullivan beat.

also if Kilrain defeated Godfrey twice, while Burke and Mitchell held Kilrain to a draw, then doesn't that suggest that they wee at least in Godfrey's class?

 

I thought it was without gloves ( Sullivan / Kilrain ) ?? Sullivan didn't fight Godfrey either. Common theme here.

Corbett did not draw with Kilrain. You're confused.

 

Their most famous fight was with bare knuckles, but contemporary sources suggest that they also fought with gloves twice, or even three times.

I meant to say Mitchell.

 

While I have you're attention what are Sullivan's best five wins in your opinion? He did not dominate the best, he avoid them and lost to Corbett.

 

The 61 Round NC/Draw between Jackson and Corbett (from BoxRec):

"From the Salem Daily News, May 22, 1891:
Greater interest was never manifested in any fight which has occurred on the Pacific Coast than that created by the great heavyweight battle between Peter Jackson of Australia and Jim Corbett of San Francisco, which occurred last night at the gymnasium of the California Athletic Club. This was due not only to the merits and the prominence of the two principals, but also to the fact that the contest would open the way to settling the question of the championship of the world, as the winner is expected to meet [Frank] Slavin, the man who has defeated all tho best on the other side of the pond. The men had trained hard and carefully and both were said to be in better form than ever before in their lives. Jackson had the advantage of a little more beef than Corbett possessed, but in every other respect it was agreed by the sporting public generally that the men were evenly matched. Jackson was the favorite in the betting previous to the fight at 10 to 8, but this was due mainly to the fact that he had had greater experience in the ring than his opponent. At these odds many thousands of dollars have been wagered during the past two days. . . . As early as 6 o'clock the spectators began to assemble in the club room and they continued to arrive as fast as the officers at the narrow entrance could admit them. Twenty policemen were in attendance to preserve order. As 8 o'clock approached the crowd in the hall showed an eagerness to have the principals appear, though it was yet an hour before time for them to appear. Jackson and Corbett arrived at the club rooms about 8 o'clock. They entered by a side door without attracting attention and immediately went to their rooms. It was soon after 9 when the principals, with their seconds, entered the ring. Both men were enthusiastically received, showing that each had plenty of friends. The men, when stripped, appeared in magnificent shape, and a hum of admiration sounded through the hall. The weights were announced, Jackson 197, Corbett 185. After the gloves were adjusted the men advanced and shook hands. In the first six rounds Jackson had the best of it. From the sixth to the twenty-fifth the men fought fairly well, honors being easy, with Jackson showing less distress than Corbett. The latter was game and fought strongly, but it was plain that he was not such a seasoned slugger as Jackson. In the twenty-fifth round, in a rushing rally, Corbett punished Jackson with heavy body blows, and thereafter the black showed no eagerness for close work. It was not known until after the mill, however, that Jackson's ribs were broken, and that Corbett was also badly injured. The fight from the twenty-fifth to the sixty-first round was simply a standoff, no hard work being done. At the close of the sixty-first round the fight was stopped by the referee. The men were unfit to fight longer, and both were willing to stop. All bets were off, and the club holds on to the purses. So, if either gets the cash they will have to fight for it again."

It reads to me like Jackson actually had the better of that fight. I would imagine, had it not been a finish fight, that Jackson could have been awarded the Decision Win?

 

I don't believe Kilrain and Mitchell had a meaningful fight except perhaps for the 1884 affair with gloves which was pretty even while Slavin and Mitchell just had exhibitions for their mutual benefit. The Kilrain-Slavin might is as relevant as the Bonecrusher-Weaver stuff.

 

Usual just because you don't recognize it or see it (rather try to hide it) doesn't mean it didn't exist!
Every official point decision had judges, at least one. If not, then it were no decisions...

 

No disrespect, but you seem to have your head jammed in the door, somewhere at the end of the 1890s.

You are measuring Sullivan's career, against fighters who had little or no meaningful overlap with him.

What you are doing, is like measuring Joe Louis's career, against fighters who were only active in the late 40s or early 50s.

Perhaps they were better than the men he fought in his prime, and perhaps they were not, but it frankly doesn't matter.

I will give a bit of thought to your question, because it is a tricky one.

 

Total rubbish! No decisions came in to being because matches in which verdicts were rendered by referees were outlawed,Boxers and their factions often circumvented this by mutually agreeing to accept NWS Newspaper decisions given by named boxing writers in the following days papers the bettors would then be paid out accordingly.
This is a stone cold fact just as the fact that Corbett did NOT floor Jackson at any time is written in stone.After being asked to provide a primary source for your two silly statements you have done what you always do,make nonsensical equivocations in gibberish.

 

[url]Smooth Legends - YouTube[/url]

 

I read Corbett’s ROAR OF THE CROWD years ago, borrowed from a library. I think it was a 1933 edition, with a blue hard cover - very rare photos were included. Already a very old book but in mint condition. I had the chance to buy it for a cheap price when the library had a second hand book sale - strangely, I passed it up. Duh!

In the book, Corbett provides a detailed and entertaining description of his fight with Jackson. Of course it’s from his POV so the accuracy may be questioned. However, his appreciation and deference to Jackson’s abilities rang loud and he made no attempt to suggest he (Corbett) was in any way the better man.

Later in the book, he details his 2nd fight v Jeffries. His candour re that fight may or may not be accepted as proof of general honesty throughout his book - BUT he even admits that the ref. for the 2nd fight was a personal acquaintance/family friend who afforded him several “long counts” to keep him in the fight - though he ultimately lost.

IIRC, earlier in the book, Corbett also goes into good detail re Jeffries time in camp when Corbett was Champ - I remember Corbett noting that on runs, his training partners failed to keep up with him. However, with Jeffries on board, no matter how fast or slow Corbett ran, Jeffries was always right there behind him - maintaining a respectful but exact distance in tow.

I can’t remember if Corbett employed a ghost writer - but if not, all the more credit to him for a very entertaining book as I remember it.

 

It’s an elementary question. The reason you may struggle is do to lack of quality. You have Sullivan’s entire career. Keep in mind the shape and age of his opponents.

 

Sullivan has an embarrassment of good wins, but it is definitely a quantity over quality resume, when comparing him to other champions.

His greatest career accomplishment, was unifying every single title claim under bare knuckle and Queensbury Rules, and it is unique in the history of the division.

The paucity of information on his opponents, makes it impossible to rank them with confidence, so with that in mind I will offer you two lists to ponder.

First, the value of the win at the time:

1. Kilrain 3 (bare knuckle bout)
2. Ryan 1 (bare knuckle bout)
3. Michell 1 (gloved bout)
4. McCaffrey (gloved bout)
5. Herald (gloved bout)

Second, how good I think the the opponent was:

1. Kilrain
2 McCaffrey
3. Burke
4. Mitchell
5. Cardiff (Greenfield if you disallow Cardiff)

Sullivan's best wins were arguably his bare knuckle fights, because he was a Queensbury specialist, defeating the best bare knuckle fighters in the world.