Who was better - Peter Jackson or James Corbett?

Bottom line Sullivan NEVER FOUGHT A BLACK MAN.CORRECT?
Despite having challenges from Jackson and Godfrey. Hand on heart ,what does this say to you about his willingness to fight black fighters?
For God's sake . QUIT WITH THIS NONSENSE!!!!

Thisi bo

 

A few notes on the discussion... According to Pollack, Sullivan flip-flopped on fighting Jackson, claiming the color line and then announcing he would fight him. Much of the press didn't feel Jackson was ready for him. In fuller context, by the time that Jackson emerged as a major threat, Sullivan was done, a dissipated alcoholic who had survived two comas, a horrible illness that kept him bedridden for 6 months, and a broken arm that never properly healed. This state came to fruition in his bout with Corbett.

 

I'm not terribly impresse3d with Corbett, so I'm guessing that if Jackson draw with him, he's of about the same level.

 

Sullivan could have fought a deserving Jackson as early as 85 and certainly by 86 .. He fought Corbett in 92 .. yes he dissipated from 84 on but he wanted no part of Jackson .. In Muldoon's book he discusses specifically how when he was lecturing Sullivan about dogging it in training for Kilrain he took credit for persuading John L. to stay away from Jackson because he felt he'd lose to him .. he mentioned this in lecturing Sullivan he'd lose ro Jake if he didn't toe the mark .. Jackson also fought a much better caliber of fighter coming out of Australia on his way up .. that said Goddard gave him some terrific bouts and a prime Sullivan may have been a terrific match for him .., we just don't know ,,

 

Some people simply don't look the world in black and white. I don't see any nonsense in Janitor's posts about this subject.

 

Jackson didn't even leave Down Under until 1888. He was still proving himself to be even the best Aussie at that point. I read a ton of articles on Goddard over the past year and there hardly seems a consensus that Jackson was definitively the best in Australia in 1890, as Goddard himself cast doubt upon.

Meanwhile, Sullivan dove deep into the bottle and almost died after the Kilrain fight in 1889.

It would have been a great fight had Sullivan actually lived differently but as it really was it seemed two ships passing in the night. Certainly, Jackson could have pulled the trick (in more devastating fashion) that Corbett did by 1892.

I'll revisit some books and articles when time allows and see if my impression stands.

 

I don't personally believe that Sullivan ever fought a black fighter.

There are primary sources that say that he did fight a local level black fighter, but I am going to take his word for it that he didn't.

On a side note, he was definitely part of a mixed race rowing team.

He seems to have wanted no part of Jackson.

I personally think that he would have fought Godfrey, if he had been offered the right terms.

I am certain that he would have fought the local level black fighter, who was scheduled to be his first title challenger, if the man had turned up.

This was a fight that he would have been under no pressure to agree to.

On a side note, Jack Johnson's first title challenger, was originally going to be Denver Ed Martin.

 

There are at least two cases where Sullivan might have faced a black fighter. I asked Adam Pollack if he had any primary sources to confirm or refute them, but he didn't (he also believes Sullivan never boxed a black fighter). Quoting my email to him:


Besides probable meeting with George Godfrey on Sept 21, 1880, which was prevented by police (that they were Sullivan and Godfrey we only know from secondary sources, though, as next-day Boston Globe only reported them as “two well-known pugilists”), there were two other stories.

One was in “The fighting man” by William A. Brady, published in 1916, page 61, it says:

To my certain knowledge Sullivan had boxed with a negro at San Bernardino, California, during one of his exhibition tours.

Unfortunately, Nov 27, 1886 San Bernardino Daily Courier doesn't provide details who Sulivan sparred with. There were two other dailies published in that city – Evening Index and San Fernardino Daily Times, but I wasn’t able to find 1886 issues online.

And yet another appeared after Sullivan’s death:

1918-02-04 The Tulsa Democrat (Tulsa, OK) (page 7)
By LOU DUFFY.
Billy McClain grew reminiscent yesterday and mentioned an incident in the late lamented John L. Sullivan's career which is worth repeating.
In 1884, shortly after he had defeated Paddy Ryan for the title John L. made a tour of the country meeting all comers and awarding $50 to the battler able to linger the four two-minute rounds mentioned by Billy Madden, his manager.
McClain was a bellboy at the New Denison hotel, Indianapolis at the time and had the craving for boxing then that has barnacled itself to him since. McClain relates of a leviathan negro known as "Black Sam," who was a fireman on one of the railroads in Indianapolis. This behemothic hulk of a man was a mammoth and known for his strength, though knowing little of science. When the Boston strong boy showed at the Indianapolis theater the Ethiopian was persuaded to show his merit.
The night of the performance the black fellow trotted out first and was the recipient of a round of applause from the gallery. He swelled up and threw out his monster chest. Just then a salvo of applause swept the house and John L., a splendid specimen of manhood, made his appearance. Black Sam's chest collapsed like a punctured balloon.
However, this did little to calm his fighting and he went after Sullivan in hammer and tongs fashion and though knowing little of the ethics of the game roughed it enough to indicate he would make it awful uncomfortable for the champion. McClain states that he never saw Sullivan hit the "tar baby" but during a time when he went toward the wings Black Sam collapsed like a house of cards and that was the end of Black Sam's ring career.

Sullivan exhibited in Indianapolis, IN, on Oct. 30, 1883, but the next-day Indianapolis News doesn’t mention details of who sparred whom that night. Do you have any more details about that particular event?

 

I don’t think Corbett could direct lord of the rings as well as Peter Jackson did. Great movies

 

So what ? Sullivan did and could travel , especially to where the toughest fighters were but he didn't .. Goddard gave Jackson a terrific fight and to me that favors a Sullivan style .. that said Jackson was the dominant heavyweight over there from 87 on .. the man was special .. Keep in mind that Jackson was a bit older than Corbett but then again the Sullivan that Corbett fought was a true wreck .. he had been for quite a few years ..

 

If I understand the politics of the day, the onus would have been on Jackson to come to America.

It's not like Sullivan could fly in by Qantas jet.

 

That's right .. he only flew to England , Ireland and France ..

 

Interesting if true - there was a "Black Sam" active around this time who was a famous wrestler but also did some boxing. According to this movie (at about the 7:30 mark) he was one of those who stepped up at an event where Sullivan had offered to take on all comers but wasn't selected.

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As part of a European tour that lasted several months, that included more than fifty exhibitions in England, and a unification title fight.

There was no way that he was going to make a sea voyage to Australia, just to fight one contender.

 

Look, in spite of his at times abrasive and high strung personality I very much respect Corbett as an athlete. He was extremely well conditioned, by all means exceptionally fast and he was a pioneer in many ways in the evolution of the sport .. that said, I'll go with Fitz .. if anyone knew both fighters it was Fitzsimmons and he was pretty direct in saying Jackson was the greatest he ever saw ..