Who Was Easier To Hit During Their Peaks?

:nut
amazing reflexes and footspeed = great defence

if you are hard to hit you have a great defence

 

In Ali's peak performance with the Big Cat, Williams was credited with scoring a grand total of six punches. (I haven't analyzed the footage from that perspective for myself. I have watched how Muhammad worked Cleveland's body with interest though. He did it rarely, but was known to go downstairs on taller upright targets like Bugner, Blue Lewis and Terrell. Blue Lewis was by far the most committed body work of Ali's career, the one time he could have won the decision on body punching alone had it gone the distance.)

Although Williams was physically compromised by the effects of that shooting which nearly killed him, his hand speed still looks good against Ali, and his height and reach are a match for Muhammad's. Considering the fact that Ali did expose his head in going to the body, his evasion is impressive. Patterson could match Ali's hand speed, but of course lacked Cleve's stature.

When Ali came back in Atlanta, Jerry Quarry was likewise credited with a grand total of six scoring blows. (Again, I have not evaluated the footage for this myself.) Like Patterson, Jerry lacked Muhammad's height and reach. Given JQ's quickness though, it ought to again be considered impressive that he was virtually unable to land.

Zora Folley was able to land successive right leads on Ali's jaw, managed to win two of the first three rounds, largely with singular body punches from outside (which Muhammad said were the best shots Folley scored), and proved that a peak Ali wasn't entirely unreachable. However, the outsized Folley was also a veteran master boxer who performed about as intelligently as he could have in that circumstance.

For me, the signature moment of Ali-Terrell came shortly after the opening of round nine, after "What's my name?," when Muhammad slipped a four jab-right combination from Ernie. Bugner had good speed to go with his size and skill, but he was never going to score enough to win, regardless of his effort.

Put Tyson in the ring with Liston, and Sonny would be hammering Mike's body in close quarters. The peek a boo posed no particular issues for Liston, aside from some fleetingly successful ducking by Patterson. As slow as Foreman was, he also probably planned to go downstairs if he got Tyson in the ring. He dropped Qawi with a deadly illegal right to the kidney. While it was correctly waved off by Padilla, it had to have a lethal and demoralizing effect on Ike through the following action. George was sufficiently cagey and dirty that he would likely send Mike to the floor quickly with the same type of blow. Screw any penalty incurred short of disqualification, Foreman would be shooting for a win, and the low postured Tyson's kidneys would have been available as a target in a way the peak Ali's would not have been. Like Marciano, George didn't care whether a power shot of his was a scoring blow or not, so long as it hit something. The dancing of a peak Ali was far better suited for evading punishment entirely than Tyson's style and stature was.

 

all those people who voted that ali was easier to hit...............
forget one thing.. first of all ali clowned around a lot..
second keep in mind the quality of opponents.. even the opponents from 60ties ali where of a better level (not all ofcourse) then tysons opponents..

 

In the thread title you say "peak", though. Make up your mind.

By using the whole of Ali's pre-exile career (most of which was before his peak) and drawing a convenient cut-off line for Tyson just before he started getting hit more often is quite a clear agenda. The Tyson against Bruno and Douglas is not a reflection of peak Tyson, but young, green Clay against Sonny Banks is a reflection of peak Ali? Come on.

 

I would say Tyson,he was certainly easier to hit with hard shots like the uppercut.Im not that into Ali`s fights but as a young fighter most of the time he seems to be moving with the punch so it barley connects.Tyson had to take some shots in order to get his own off and that could leave him open to some hard punches like the Tucker uppercut.His head movement was good but he was not reading the other guy like Ali would be,Tyson would be trying to confuse with the head moves and if he took the odd jab fine,then unload the hooks.Ali was harder to hit imo at least meaningfully hit.

 

I don't know.
Ali was never the will'o'wisp he's sometimes made out to be. He made opponents miss in such a way that looked great, but he got tagged by a fair few shots in between.
Tyson was probably not as hard to hit as some believe too, but he imposed his will and intimidated a lot of opponents.

 

Tyson was rarely hit cleanly at his best.

 

I agree - James Toney is an even more extreme case of that. Yes, he'll make you miss and look stupid in spectacular fashion, but he also shipped a lot more punches than his opponents often get credit for.

That said, Ali was still very hard to hit. But given that Tyson's style was to charge and be in your face, it's hard to make a fair comparison.

 

The ones who connected with really clean, hard blows were Smith and Tucker. But only once in Smith's case. Thomas scored with some jabs, but that's about it. So, yes, at his absolute best (Berbick to Spinks) he was very rarely hit clean, especially considering his style.

Ali at his very best (Liston II to Terrell) hardly took a truly clean blow to the head (he managed to "follow through" with most of the ones landed by for example Chuvalo and Folley - not absorbing the full impact), but Mildenberger managed to land two really good body punches. Those two was probably the best punches landed on Ali during this period.

So it's pretty even I'd say.

 

With Tyson, it's really hard to get a load of clean punches in on a guy who knocks you out in a round or two.

 

If you ask Kevin Rooney what made Tyson so special, he wont say punching power or speed. He will say how elusive Tyson was and how difficult he was to hit cleanly and how that affected opponents.

Thats a part of Tysons game that is overlooked and what was going to carry him to higher greatness had he continued on with Rooney.

 

You ever watch TYSON-RUDDOCK? TYSON-RUDDOCK II?

 

Peak Tyson ('86 Berbick to '88 Spinks) closed the distance faster & more elusively than any other come-forward fighter at Heavyweight.
Peak Ali ('65 Patterson to '67 Folley) was probably the most exclusive boxer in Heavyweight history, he was the definition of 'slick'.

Both were very rarely hit with a flush punch during their Peaks, since they utilised their lighting-quick reflexes for elusive purposes.
I will automatically give a slight edge to Ali for being "harder to hit" as he was a 'dancing & leaning backwards slick-boxer'.