Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

I think anyone in the top 5 is fine unless its apparent the #1 bad boy keeps getting avoided for a length of time. Zora Folley fits that bill. But I think it was Mongoose that said LaStarza was #1. If you know that for a fact I won't dispute it, because I was only going by the year-end ratings. But it appeared odd that at the end of '52 Rollie was ranked #7 and then beat the #2 Layne in February and was inactive until September when he fought Marciano. Was he actually ranked #1??

 

There was no Number 1 contender when the first Rocky Marciano-Ezzard Charles fight was made.

RING Magazine's ratings weren't used to determine who mandatory challengers were any more than they are used now.

The National Boxing Association was the governing body at the time. They published QUARTERLY ratings (not monthly).

On Jan. 11, 1954, the NBA published its first ratings for the year. The "LOGICAL" contender was the mandatory.

The NBA's first quarterly ratings in 1954 went like this:

Heavyweight
Champion: Rocky Marcianio
Logical Contenders: None
Outstanding Contenders: Ezzard Charles, Ohio; Nino Valdes, Cuba; Dan Bucceroni, Pennsylvania; Roland LaStartza, New York

On Jan. 5, 1954, Al Weill met with the Jim Norris of the IBC (Marciano's promoters) to determine who Marciano's next opponent would be. Norris wanted Marciano to fight in February in Miami.

The first week in January, Marciano had told reporters he was going to fight Danny Nardico in Miami on Feb. 24. After the quote was printed, Weill denied it and said Marciano had been misquoted.

At the meeting, Weill told Norris he wanted to wait and have Marciano fight in June. Weill and Norris discussed the idea of Marciano fighting the following guys: Dan Bucceroni, Nino Valdes, Don ****ell and Ezzard Charles. Norris told Weill that Nardico was off the table.

When Weill left, they hadn't agreed on who Marciano should face.

That was on Jan. 5. On Jan. 11, the NBA's ratings came out listing no one was the logical contender.

A few days later, Ezzard Charles knocked out Bob Satterfield on national television. Accordng to the New Yorkt Times, the following week he met with Jim Norris to discuss obtaining a title shot. Charles had been one of the original boxers to sign with the IBC. He had a good relationship with Norris.

On Feb. 24, the day Norris had wanted Marciano to defend his title in Miami, it was announced that Marciano would defend against Charles in June at Yankee Stadium.

I could post PDFs of all the articles later. For some reason, the NY Times PDF feature isn't working at the moment.

But there was no Number 1 contender when Charles and Marciano signed to fight, according to the National Boxing Association. And they were the only ratings that mattered.

RING Magazine's ratings weren't any more valid than any other boxing publication's ratings. Boxing Illustrated was older than RING, and they printed monthly ratings, too.

 

"National Boxing Association"

"they were the only ratings that mattered"

The New York State Athletic Commission had a say in these things also,

The Ring Magazine did not have official standing, but was respected among the general public, and would be the ratings that were most widely known.

*One point though--your evidence doesn't support your conclusion. It appears at least as of January 5, 1954, there was no NBA "logical" contender, but Charles was listed first among the "outstanding" contenders, even prior to the big win over Satterfield.

 

"Boxing Illustrated was older than The Ring"

I thought Boxing Illustrated was founded in 1958 by Stanley Weston.

The Ring goes back to 1922, and, as far as I know, was the first to rate fighters.

But I would be interested in more information.

 

Yes he was. Here is your evidence

Ring Rankings in October, 1953, issue to August 18.

Champ--Rocky Marciano

1--Roland LaStarza
2--Ezzard Charles
3--Dan Bucceroni
4--Nino Valdes
5--Tommy Harrison
6--Bob Satterfield
7--Heinz Neuhaus
8--Don ****ell
9--Earl Walls
10-Harry Matthews

 

Sorry, I meant Boxing News. Founded in 1909.

 

The NBA was the ruling body in boxing at that time. They were the sanctioning body. Their ratings are the ratings that boxers followed. They stripped fighters if they didn't follow their rulings.

They didn't rank fighters 1-10. They listed logical contenders and outstanding contenders. If there was one logical contender, that's who you had to fight. If there was more than one logical contender, you could choose between the two. If there were no logical contenders, you chose someone among the outstanding contenders. (Of course, exceptions could be made, just like they are today.)

Just because Charles was listed first among outstanding contenders didn't mean he was the number one contender. You were the logical guy or you weren't. Charles was not the logical contender. He had as much "right" to a title fight as any other outstanding contender listed.

In the same ratings, the NBA listed the Logical Contenders at light heavyweight to be Harold Johnson and Joey Maxim ... and Archie Moore made his only title defenses that year against Maxim and Johnson.

As for New York, New York had nothing like the power of the NBA. When New York recognized Frazier as champ when he beat Mathis, four other states followed its lead.

That means 45 states the the rest of the world didn't.

That's not power.

The NBA's ratings were the most "widely known" because the people the NBA chose were the ones who got title shots.

Ring had no control over anything.

 

Jan. 5, 1954 - Weill and Norris prepare to meet
http://postimg.org/image/f1j1n4za3/

Jan. 6, 1954 - Weill and Norris can't agree on Marciano's next challenger (Norris says Marciano-Valdes or Bucceroni might attract the larger gate in Miami)
http://postimg.org/image/6tbk9l0y1/

Jan. 11, 1954 - NBA Quarterly Ratings
http://postimg.org/image/rldduefvh/

Jan. 15, 1954 - Charles wants title shot after beating Satterfield
http://postimg.org/image/s4obn4pql/

Feb. 24, 1954 - Marciano-Charles announced
http://postimg.org/image/460nwq9x3/

 

Jan 13 1954 Post Bob Satterfield fight

"Charles has earned the chance. It will not be necessary for him further to prove his right as the No. 1 contender." -Truman Gibson, IBC secretary, regarding Charles's shot at the title.

 

I think the nationally televised knockout of Bob Satterfeild pretty much eclipsed what the other outstanding contenders were doing around the time a challenger could be selected. In the eyes of the ticket buying public the Ibc recognized that Charles in that form was the biggest fight for the champion that could be made at that time in New York.

Valdes was not as spectacular with his wins, he was kind of building on his one good win after a run of defeats against fighters he had not rematched. He had not rematched Charles either. He was a good contender and if the circumstances allowed for three defences a year it would have been logical to take Nino as an extra challenger after beating Jackson. But mostly nino was kind if treading water with his rating, it was not long enough ago that he lost four in a row to Johnson, Moore, Gilliam and Baker.

 

As pointed out above, Rollie was in fact RING #1 after the Layne win.

Keep in mind the Feb 53 #1 Walcott retired in just a few months. And LaStarza/Layne winner was shifted to his spot. Despite some excellent wins, Charles was very busy and would also have two more losses that year, while LaStarza could afford to sit on his rating.

I think LaStarza was certainly opportunistic in his snatching of the rating but many good managed fighters are.

 

"Ring had no control over anything"

If a fight was on TV, the ratings TV used in their preview was The Ring ratings.

By the way, the NBA did publish 1-10 ratings because I have seen some. I think they did theirs quarterly.

"New York had nothing like the power of the NBA"

There were more big fights and big money fights held in New York than all the other states put together in the 1930 to 1960 era. I think the NYSAC was the single most powerful sanctioning body in the world at the time. Just listing # of states means nothing, as most of these states in that era were backwaters.

Also, the NBA couldn't control the state commissions. Frazier was recognized by Pennsylvania. Moore by California after he was stripped by the NBA. Texas recognized Frazier when he fought Zyglewicz.

Also, the NBA champion was not necessarily recognized in the rest of the world by any means.

Do the British consider Terry Downes to have ever been middleweight champion? He was not recognized by the NBA.

And the British and Europeans sometimes went their own way. Lee Savold was recognized by the BBoC and EBU, not Charles.

The IBU (later EBU) also recognized champions--like Marcel Thil (after the NBA withdrew recognition)

The Ring had popular authority because it held to a standard which the public of that era agreed with--a champion could only lose his title in the ring. Boxing politicians couldn't arbitrarily strip a champion of his crown as the NBA did with Marcel Thil, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Archie Moore.

I wonder how many casual boxing fans know about these light-heavyweight "champions" of the 1930's?

George Nichols, Joe Knight, Bob Godwin (NBA)

Gustav Roth, Adolph Heuser (IBU)

 

SuzieQ, Mongoose, thanks for digging up those ratings on LaStarza. Wish they were readily available on boxrec rather than just those year-end. Thanks again.

 

Was Boxing News an American publication?

 

I complied a list somewhere, from what I remember as far as Champions meeting their RING #1

Louis-6
Marciano-5
Ali-4

I think the rest are 0-2.