Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

He did do something to disqualify himself. NYSAC security Bob Christanberry returned ninos $5000 bond to challenge Rocky Marciano after Valdes poor showing against James J Parker. This was in March 1954. Charles beat Satterfeild that January.

The fight was supposed to be a Madison Square garden showcase for two 6'3" 210lb heavyweights with knock out records but the fans boos and stamping of feet ruined any chance of establishing Nino as the logical contender. "Off last night's fight we can't consider Valdes a worthy contender" said Christanberry.

This was stark contrast to the IBC security Truman Gibson who went on record after the Charles v Satterfeild fight that January telling the press that night "Charles has earned his chance. It will not be necessary for him to further prove his right as number one contender". Charles himself said "All I want is a title shot and will fight anyone to get it. Valdes,Bucceroni, Lastarza. You name him, I'll fight him".

 

Nino would have been a good looking win for Marciano but it was a case of not enough momentum at the right time after losing 4 strait in end of 53 and beginning of 54, he had a good run the rest of 54 but was beaten by Harold Johnson,Billy Gilliam, Archie Moore and Bob Baker, Moore beat Baker KO8, TKO'd Harold Johnson in 13 and Charles beat Gilliam,. Marciano wanted Valdes as his number 50 in 1955 but Valdes was soundly beaten and dropped by Bob Satterfield who had already been KO'd in 2 by Charles and beaten by Moore

Patterson was not moving up with Rocky at the helm and there really was no one else to fight...I wish he was have fought Valdes and Baker just for hits and giggles and to retire with 50-0 45KO's and to shut up the Big guy lovers on ESB, at the time quality was rated over size

 

Ultimately, and with hindsight, I think how Charles and Valdes both fared against Bob Satterfeild tell the real story of whom really was the better #1 contender.

After beating Satterfeild Charles still called everybody out (including Valdes) to further his cause as the best contender but still Nino was reluctant to rematch him. If Ninos people really wanted to eclipse Charles claim as #1 there was all that time from January until May (where Valdes sought other fights) to make their rematch happen.

Even during his run as a contender I don't think Valdes ever really shook off the rep for Losing so many fights just prior to breaking into the ratings. without rematching any of those guys it left doubt. When he did rematch one of them he lost.

Satterfeild and Moore ended Ninos almost borrowed time as a worthy contender. and they were two guys Charles emphatically proved supremacy over

 

Stop making excuses for Charles. He got dominated by Valdes. Valdes jabbed his face off and beat him up in the trenches...just accept it

Valdes would have been a viable contender for Marciano with his size left jab and power..certainly a lot more dangerous than cokkell

Marciano knocks out Valdes and he did not duck him but please stop with your nonsense.

 

Yes, Charles dropped a decision to Valdes. I read that Charles started way too fast, couldn't finish Nino off when he hurt him and faded under the bigger man's presure late in the fight. It was 6-4 or 7-3 in rounds. Sounds like a tactical error on Charles part in underrating Nino.

It was No thrashing or jabbing masterclass for Valdes that is for sure. Charles was eager to rematch Valdes though. It's well documented.

Charles was the master of the two guys who ended ninos run as a serious contender. Beating Charles twice would have enhanced Valdes chances for a title shot before Charles.

 

I have a direct quote from Charles after his retirement which states he couldn't get away from Valdes jab. So it was a jabbing clinic win for Valdes. Valdes had a good jab perhaps best left hand in the division

Charles beat Moore 6 years ago so don't bring that up. 1954 was not 1948...Charles may have lost to Moore by 54

 

Boxrec has a couple of newspaper stories which speak to the ratings of Valdes and Charles in 1954. I don't know how to bring them over but I'll type the key quotes--
-------------------------------------------------------

The Spokeman Review--Friday, March 12, 1954, page 13

New York (AP)

"Valdes, the world's #2 contender behind Ezzard Charles has a winning streak of six that started on July 18 when he knocked out Omelio Agramonte in the 10th round to grab the Cuban crown."

The above is from a paragraph in the preview of the Valdes-Parker fight that night. As this speaks of #2 contender, I guess the AP is quoting The Ring on ratings.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Pittsburgh Post Gazette, October 7, 1954

Milwaukee, October 6, (AP)

"Valdes, the Cuban champion, is the first heavyweight to earn the logical distinction since last spring, according to Fred J. Saddy of the NBA rating committee. Former champion Ezzard Charles, now named at the top of the list of outstanding heavyweights, was designated the only contender before his first bout with Marciano last June."
-----------------------------------------------------
So Charles seems to have been rated #1 by The Ring I guess, and was rated the logical contender by the NBA.

 

Fighters are human, they remember things wrong.

Here is an actual report.

[url]https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1817&dat=19530812&id=ig8dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NJgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4668,3851568&hl=en[/url]


No mention of Valdes putting on a jab clinic or even doing much jabbing. Valdes came from behind to outslug Charles.

Charles at his career heaviest in the Miami heat apparently punched himself out trying to finish a hurt Valdes in the second round as chokelab said.

Charles said "He was a stronger fighter and good MAULER."

In the third, Valdes took charge by walking Charles across the ring.


[url]http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1953/08/12/page/41/article/nino-valdes-scores-upset-over-charles[/url]

This report again describes Charles starting fast and looking for an early knockout, hurting Valdes in the second.

In the third, Valdes rushed Charles into the ropes and attacked his body.




A detailed breakdown of the fight here from Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life.


[url]https://books.google.com/books?id=rkW7CQAAQBAJ&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=ezzard++charles+nino+valdes&source=bl&ots=kkMqmCC6bW&sig=lm_Yek4PUyG1roqHHCx78o_JxfU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwADgKahUKEwidzKnD84zGAhUEjA0KHYhXAFw#v=onepage&q=ezzard%20%20charles%20nino%20valdes&f=false[/url]


-Charles won first 3 rounds. Valdes rocked badly in the 2nd against the ropes.

-In 4th, Valdes begins taunting a tiring Charles and shaking off his combinations. Valdes offense described as "clubbing advances"

-Charles described as not being able to keep the strong Valdes off him.

Charles lost 7-2-1 officially.


It looks to me by all accounts Charles came in heavy, looked for an early knockout but couldn't put Valdes away. Valdes used his size to maul a fatigued Charles to a decision win.

 

I would like to read that quote because all the film of Valdes out there does not show a long jabbing boxer but a big mauling guy who does not really use his reach.

Here is a direct quote from Nino himself on the fight. Notice how he does not mention the jab..:huh

"Charles was a very dangerous fighter," Nino reflected years later, "but I surprised him. I moved very agressively on him and used my weight and size and I broke his rhythm and confused him. He hit me a few good shots and I hit him back with a few good ones too. I beat him but Ezzard Charles was something special."


Every report I have read of the Nino Valdes win over Charles make the same points. ezzard was a bit heavy and had decided to go for a quick win and tired himself out. nino was reportedly saved by the bell in round 2, ezzard put too much into the first four rounds and game nino was able to maul his way back into it when ezzard could not finish the job.

It was a blunder that cost charles because he had not prepared for a long fight. valdes never rematched charles who was never as heavy again. Charles improved his form shortly after with better wins over satterfeild and walace than valdes ever recorded..

Nino was still a genuine contender, He genuinly beat a great fighter one time but he never recorded anything close to it again.

 

according to box rec 2 judges had the fight 3-5 so one rd swing and it would have been a draw the other Judge had it 7-2, fight was in little Havana Miami and Charles came in heavy. I would have liked to see Nino fit in somewhere but not over Moore and he did not rematch Charles and Charles did win 11 out of his last 13 fights, one loss disputed to Harold Johnson but some solid wins and a clean KO over Wallace and Satterfield in his last 2 and a win over Nino beater Gilliam so Charles became the deserving guy.

Still a Marciano-Valdes fight would have been more interesting than Kockel but we know the reason why that didnt happen and Nino lost to B Satterfield in 55 so he was out as Marciano's last hope for a payday

 

My god I had no idea there was a book on ezzard Charles!

 

Can't wait to read it wowwwwwws

 

Here is the NY Times report on Charles-Valdes.

[url]http://postimg.org/image/3juvpu6en/[/url]

 

What are you talking about? The NBA didn't try to block Marciano-Charles, either time.

I'm posting articles from the time, you're posting made up scenarios.

The NYSAC was just a commission. The NBA was the sanctioning body at the time. The NBA recognized Marciano through his whole reign. Just like the NBA recognized Walcott before him. And Charles before him. And Louis before him ... and on down the line.

I'm not going to get into this with you for a second day.

You're the one trying to "rewrite history."

If the NYSAC didn't recognize either Walcott-Marciano fight (in Philly or Chicago) or Marciano-****ell (in California) or Patterson-Moore (in Chicago) after Rocky retired, they still would've been title fights because the NBA recognized them as such.

NY had a say in what went on in New York. The NBA had a say in what went on everywhere at the time.

If the NYSAC had a problem with Marciano-Charles being a title fight, they just would've staged it ANYWHERE else on the planet and it would've been. Because the NBA sanctioned it.

Deal with it.

 

:good

Nino won a hard fight with infighting rather than jabbing by the sounds of it. (Suzie Q49 must be confused.)

Looks like Charles made a mistake coming in heavy and starting too fast. Was he even in top shape?

He might have been overwhelmed by a bigger fitter opponent but all reports agree of the two of them Charles came closest to scorring a knockout.