Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

It didn't sound like either came close to scoring a knockout. Sounds like Charles hit him hard in the second. But it doesn't say anything about coming close to a knockout. And it reads like Charles didn't win much of anything after round 2, except for the low-blow tally.

 

Mongose posted an excerpt from "Ezzard Charles a fighting life" that gave more detail. Charles could not finish Nino off. I can't find the report that I read but Nino was hurt and wobbled in round two. Nino came back to outwork Charles in exciting rounds with mauling pressure. Charles did not get his face jabbed off like Suzie Q49 says. The whole thing smacks of one fighter underestimating a good opponent by getting too tired going for the early finish.

 

Choke lab Valdes had one of the best jabs in the division. He closed Archie moore and Listons eye with it, watch Jackson and Satterfield fights he throws a long powerful jab .

And yes he did score often with his jab against Charles. I have an exact quote from Charles in a radio interview

 

Nino fought Charles FIVE MONTHS after losing to Archie Moore and in that fight Nino had a feeble pawing jab. It was not what Valdes was about. Watch the film! A slow open handed reaching dabber that he would leave out too long after throwing it like he was hailing a cab.

Moore picked off Nino and OUT-JABBED valdes. Nino Valdes was not known for a great jab. Or a great defence.

Valdes was known as a big, rough, durable, hard punching handfull. A dirty fighter that you had to be in shape to beat because Valdes was extremely physical. He made you work hard. Strong and game. A clubbing puncher. Not a jabber.

Small guys in shape always beat Valdes. It's such a pity Charles never got that rematch.

 

Not a jabber???

"In the rough battle, referee Jim Braddock took one round away from each battler because of low blows. There were no knockdowns but each was knocked back onto his heels several times during the exciting slugging match. Archie Moore was bleeding from the nose and mouth at the finish, and his left eye also was swollen. But he could see very well.

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and whistling rights. In the 13th session, Nino's left eye was closed tightly shut and he fought on half-blinded and fatigued. Moore's superiority in the 14th and 15th rounds clinched the fight and gave Moore his 20th straight victory." - United Press





Bobby Gleason, Nino Valdes' Manager,

"If they think my guy came here to lose, then they're looking at the wrong opponent. That's whatPat McMurty thought, and Nino took him down in the 1st-Round. Sonny better be ready,

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Nino is
the Underdog, but I dont look at the 6-1 odds, as one-punch can change anything. When you have two big guys who weigh 210 lbs. fighting, anything can happen."



The Fight,

Chicago Stadium (Attendance; 2282) 1959

Both Sonny and Nino did not exhibit any special skills in the 1st-Round, as both
plodders appeared to be going through opening round motions.

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Late in the round, Nino attempted a left-right combination, and Sonny froze as the
punches bounced off his head. Sonny did clumsily press, but his attack were punches
of slow pushes, not snapping ones.

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Sonny Liston's cornermen were a bit nervous in Round 2, as Sonny again
seemed to freeze when he was getting hit.

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The two got involved in some close quarter exchanges, and both seemedfairly 'even' in trading punches.

After 2-Rounds, Sonny was ahead 1-0-1 in Rounds on two Scorecards,
and Nino was ahead 1-0-1 on the other card.

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His cornermen were waiting for hism with an ice-pack, and immediately applied it
to the closing right eye, in an effort to stop the fast swelling.



https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=7GoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4826,535381&hl=en

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Except Ezzard Charles, who got dominated. No excuses. Accept it.

 

"tried". This means they missed.

were these the pawing kind we see on film?

manager Bobby Gleason could be biased. Max Baer, Frazier and Rocky Marciano did jab on occasion but it is not what they are known for.

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Left jab or left hand?:huh

good jabs this time fair enough. Uncharacteristic from films all the same.

Perhaps on this opponent. Sonny Liston was jabbed quite a bit by others, if you are trying to keep away a defensive jab would be employed by non jabbers. I don't doubt Nino did use a jab but it's not a signature punch that He is famous for. Nino was a puncher. A clubbing mauler. He was not Ridd1ck Bowe.

Sure, Charles lost. But it was competative because it was a good fight. Great win for Valdes. Not a domination though. Reports suggest it was Charles who dominated the start of the fight and then got tired. Nino had the edge for the remainder. It was a good tough fight. There is a lot of evidence Charles was not in the best of shape. If that was the case he deserved to lose. ALI lost to Norton when he was unknown. Ray Robinson took Turpin lightly and paid the price. At least they both saught rematches and got them.

manager Bobby Gleason could be biased. Max Baer, Frazier and Rocky Marciano did jab on occasion but it is not what they are known for.

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Left jab or left hand?:huh

good jabs this time fair enough. Uncharacteristic from films all the same.

Perhaps on this opponent. Sonny Liston was jabbed quite a bit by others, if you are trying to keep away a defensive jab would be employed by non jabbers. I don't doubt Nino did use a jab but it's not a signature punch that

Sure, Charles lost. But it was competative because it was a good fight. Great win for Valdes. Not a domination though. Reports suggest it was Charles who dominated the start of the fight and then got tired. Nino had the edge for the remainder. It was a good tough fight. There is a lot of evidence Charles was not in the best of shape. If that was the case he deserved to lose. ALI lost to Norton when he was unknown. Ray Robinson took Turpin lightly and paid the price. At least they both saught rematches and got them.

 

That Pittsburgh post gazette is talking about Archie Moore as an opponent, not sonny Liston. Moore was very good at defending jabs but got tore up by Valdes jab

 

Well we've both seen the first fight...Valdes was well beaten and he jabbed poorly that time. Maybe nino was different in the rematch than he looked in all the film's?

Peter Wilson wrote about that second fight in a book I have. I'm pretty sure he wrote of Nino clubbing away again and that a tired Moore used the Vegas Sun to his advantage. I can quote from it tomorrow.

 

I haven't read any report that Valdes tore Moore or Charles up with a jab. Especially Charles. No official account of Charles fight mentions a jab.

You seem pretty convinced by one retrospective quote in the face of multiple accounts, and Charles actual quotes post fight, and Valdes own retrospective quote.

There just doesn't seem to be any evidence of a face getting jabbed off or a clinic. The domination description doesn't seem that accuate either of Valdes lost 2 to 3 rounds of 10 on every card with as many as 2 even and was the only man said to be rocked in the fight.