Who Was the 3rd Best Heavyweight of the 1980s?

You're a tough judge Duo! Witherspoon was a mere fledgling. This was his 15th fight and a huge step up in class against a proven world class fighter with a vastly better resume who was 5 steps above Tim in the development stakes. Tim should be lauded for the effort he actually put forth. How could it be held against him? It was a great learning curve for him and very next fight he gave Holmes the fright of a lifetime. Tho not in the 80's Weaver lost to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the 70's. Smith also just happened to put Weaver away in a single round in 86 just 3 fights before he did Witherspoon. How come this gets no mention? It was a legitimate fight where as the Witherspoon fight is full of doubt. Witherspoon had all but shut him out the year before. DuPlooy also knocked him out in 2 at the tail of the 80's, which has to be included.

 

Yes, and this is exactly what it was for Witherspoon when thrust into fights vs the proven world class Snipes in his 15th fight and the Great Larry Holmes in his 16th.

 

I think after Holmes and Tyson. Spinks comes in number 3.

Than you have the Pages, Witherspoons, and Berbicks to choose from. Spinks rein for 2 years before Tyson put a end to that.

 

1. Tyson
2. Holmes
3. Spinks
4.Witherspoon
5. Weaver

Tyson's devasting 80s career eclipses Holmes' handily in my opinion.

3-5 are relatively interchangable, I put Spinks at 3 because his only loss came to Tyson (however embaressing it was), and he did beat Holmes twice. Although I feel the second one was a robbery, we are looking are resumes here...and the fact that he beat Holmes twice is significant. Spinks was a good heavyweight - MUCH better than his demolition via Tyson indicates.

He was also more consistent - Witherspoon and Weaver not only had more losses, but more downright embaressing performances. Spinks' only loss was to, arguably, the most fearsome version of Tyson. I think Spinks could've beat most everyone else in the division, but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time versus Tyson.

So, by virtue of his 2x wins over the #2 and his only loss to the #1 (with a few low-key wins as well), Spinks at #3.

 

I'd say Mike Weaver. He fought decent opposition and did I think he was the best "other" champ in the era.

 

With all due respect, Spinks was a great light heavyweight, but can't really be rated as a top 3 heavy during the 80's. Wins over a shot Cooney, Tangstad, an aging Holmes once, and a highly disputed rematch outcome, along with a first round knockout loss, for a total of 5 heavyweight fights near the end of the decade, doesn't quite cut it.

Some possible candidates for #3 include, Witherspoon, Weaver and maybe Berbick. These men foought their entire careers at heavyweight and beat far more ranked heavyweights than Spinks did.

Just my opinion though.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, but I do believe that Pinklon Thomas has a valid case for being rated higher than Tim Witherspoon not just in head to head advantage but his body of work is relatively even and his losses are far more respecatable (though it shouldnt matter that much)

 

People forget this simple fact..Thomas whipped Witherspoon and Berbick whipped Thomas when he held the title, beating him over 15. I believe Thomas was finished after this fight-went on a permanent downslide in his career. Thomas also whipped Weaver which means that Berbick pulled off what both Weaver and TW failed.

 

Oustanding post.:good



Just one question.............. no mention of the Louisville warrior? :admin

 

There's not a lot between the two and i can see how some might prefer Thomas. I myself like Witherspoons wins slightly better and can't quite see how Tim's losses are far less respectable. The Holmes loss was an unbelievable effort as a juvenile, the Smith fight was i think a fix or similar and Thomas himself was a plain fine fighter. That's three very excusable losses. I think Pinky losing to Berbick was at least as bad as Witherspoon losing to Thomas. Both close fights with Pink being a little better than Berbick. Obviously nothing can be held against him via Tyson and Holy.

It might come down to personal perception i think, and i fully respect your viewpoint.

 

Simple very definitely comes to mind

Thomas - Witherspoon

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Art Lurie

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Paul Smith

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Arlen Bynum

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Hahahaha, thanks! Greg just had way too many lacklustre efforts and losses. I have made my rankings strictly achievement driven. Now you've given me a chance to get my spiel in, if i had to pick the third best man purely head to head on his very best night she's Greg

 

Agreed. Greg Page was a great fighter, but only for a handful of fights. Maybe in a head to head setting he might turn out a little better.

 

But Snipes outperformed 'Spoon with sheer volume of punches and hustle, demonstrating to me that he wanted it more than Tim. In Witherspoon's very next fight, that conduct bit him in the arse, as he again failed to close the show with a flourish. (If the judges had scored Snipes/Witherspoon correctly, then maybe Tim would have gotten a timely lesson in the importance of fighting to win, instead of boxing not to lose. The only other excuse I can find for Witherspoon's closing rounds conduct against Holmes is that Larry's ninth round right cross off the ropes was far more stunning to Tim than he ever admitted to.)

Smith was very intelligent in taking out Weaver the way he did, especially after the snowjob Hercules baited The Truth with. Even more remarkable is the fact that Weaver later came off the deck to take Smith the distance, just as he did with Dokes. (How many champions have done that against two or more opponents who had previously registered single round stoppages at their expense?)

JT, I have to admit that it does matter to me that Hercules improved himself to the point where he really did make the most of his limited abilities. In that respect, he was not a frustrating fighter to follow. Coetzee and Cooney lacked the confidence. Dokes, Page, Tubbs, and Witherspoon lacked the commitment (among many other contenders). Bonecrusher Smith was a big, hardpunching heavyweight, who was also very well conditioned. But when the bell rang, Smith had a very peculiar inablilty to just let his fists fly. Snipes brought conditioning and confidence to his title shot against Holmes, but stupidly stood over Larry with his arms upraised, making the referee escort him to a neutral corner, causing his back to be turned when Holmes stumbled face-first into the corner when he got up. (Would the referee have stopped it in favor of Renaldo if he saw Larry stumble like that?)

Weaver wasn't lazy, stupid, protected, or manufactured and packaged imposingly. Nor was he a quitter. Neither was he a braggart, or undignified turd. For me, there's plenty to respect and admire about him. Even in his late rematch with Holmes, he got up from a hellacious right hand, and was on his feet when the referee stopped it. (As hard as Larry is supposed to have hit, it says something for Hercules that he got up from what may have been the hardest two punches Holmes ever delivered.)

Perhaps I'm truly rating according to who I feel made the most of what they had. I appreciate that.

 

I have this fight and might watch it again. I still think it could be more Tim's inexperience and first big step up more so that "not wanting" it. He did get a draw and a title shot.

I'd prefer to give Holmes a bit more credit here, and therefore Witherspoon. Here he is a novice fighting one of the greatest ever, reknowned for his brilliant stamina. I'm not sure it quite fair to criticise Witherspoon for not finishing over the top of the great Holmes. Truth be told i think it is understated just how badly Witherspoon too was hurt late in that eventful 9'th round. Many just talk about the damage done to Holmes early on.

But yes, 15 fight Witherspoon finishing with a flourish over the ATG Holmes in the championship rounds? Pretty big ask, i prefer to laud him on his actual effort in this one.

IMO would not have changed a thing apart from Tim not getting his shot at that time, and possibly never vs Holmes.

Aha, well done. Never mind what Witherspoon admits too, you and i can plainly see what transpired. Tim too was definitely shaken up, it halted his big momentum almost instantly.

Weaver baited The Truth? When was Weaver known for sublime skill or setting traps? Weaver simply caught a defensively lax Williams in an offensive frame of mind after Williams had landed some solid punches and Mike was in some slight trouble.It wasn't cat and mouse. Williams right hand was no where near high enough given the position of the fighters and his weak chin and Weaver's big power did the rest.

Well the Dokes stoppage was bogus and full credit to Mike, but coming off two first round losses to take the opponent the distance next fight doesn't count well toward top 3 of the decade honors. Full credit to Weaver, i'm a big fan but trying to stay impartial.

I can tell, but we have to remember these things mean absolutely nothing toward a ranking such as the one discussed. I agree Weaver is a great story tho.

I wouldn't put Witherspoon on par with that lot, tho sometimes a bit out of shape he none the less won every fight but 3 for the decade.

Totally agree, Weaver's a rare shining light.

To be honest i barely rate the fight, they were geezers. Larry wasn't THAT big a hitter ever and Weaver was damaged goods of course.

I'd have to agree. There's a place in my heart for Weaver too, but i'm trying to rate via cold hard facts and i think he comes in at 5.