Who was the best bantamweight ever?

I don't think Olivares was considered smack dab at his peak when Herrera beat him. Ok he did beat him a second time but you can't put Olivares in the same category as Zamora and Cuevas as punchers who once they were "found out", were never the same again. Olivares went on to win the featherweight title twice, give future HOF Alexis Arguello the fight of his life, Stop Bobby Chacon twice and ko future lightweight champ Jose luis Ramirez with a body shot. All this when considered past his best.

 

Olivares was one of the best inside fighters in the division's history, I'd hardly call that aspect of his game a weakness. His looping bolo style body shots allowed him to land punches with power from angles most fighters couldn't.

 

Ruben`s legs just weren`t there in that first bout vs Herrera, his timing was way off and he looked plain sluggish in there. He did most of his training in the whorehouses and cantinas going into that fight and it showed. The finishing blow by Herrera was a particularly strange one in the sense that it didn`t even seem to land anywhere on Ruben`s head, it looked like it kind of looped around the back of his head as he was ducking to avoid it and just barely grazed the back of his neck.

I think Ruben decided to take the count and call it a day, he knew he wasn`t going to win that night so he packed it in instead. The rematch followed the same pattern as the first bout, with Herrera pressing and Ruben playing the matador to Rafael`s bull but this time more effectively. What cost Ruben though was his inactivity, he didn`t let his hands go enough and let Herrera dictate the pace most of the night.

Ruben did ring his bell but good in the 7th or 8th round though, I don`t remember which one but after that the tide seemed to turn in Ruben`s favour as he started to take the fight to Herrera and had him backing up some. A third fight may have seen a reversal of fortunes for Ruben and there was some talk of making it happen, but it never came to be.

 

No, not at all, how old d'ye think I am? I just know he used top run a few pubs around town. The Grapes I think. Maybe The Vines as well?

 

Ha ha, how is your dad mate? I think it's been mentioned but it is a great pity he never became champ, but he can take comfort in the fact that the 1960s was arguably the best ever era for the division, in terms of champions at least: Jofre, Harada, Olivares, even Rose. Wow! In the summer I met an old pro on holiday: Tony Cunningham. He knew your dad.:good

 

As it stands, they're both worthy of inclusion of being inside the Top 10, but just don't crack the Top 5, imo. And I loved both fighters to death.

Couple of dark horse mentions if not for number one, but Top 10 are...

Orlando Canizales (defeated only once at the weight. which was avenged quite comprehensively).

Veeropol Sahaprom (17 title defences is nothing to sneeze at, and they were not all against stiffs, either. Plus, the fact that he won his first bantamweight title is his fourth pro fight is pretty notable as well.)

Jimmy Carruthers and Jimmy Barry (both of whom retired undefeated...Barry stayed undefeated by not coming back.)

 

He's ok, thanks for asking. I just looked on boxrec, Tony Cunningham boxed David Kotey. You were right about "the Vines" or Big House. My dad had that after he retired.

 

Yeah, he fought Kotey did Tony Cunnigham and sparred with Rose. He liked to tell me how many times he got the 'nobbins' . He was a nice fella, he said your old man was brilliant.

 

I agree. Two of my favorites too. Top ten, not top 5. Like I said, they needed each other. From that era, I tend to blame WBA vs WBC and King vs Arum for fights not being made before I blame the fighters.

Good call on Canizales too. He was brilliant when he was on. I remember Chandler had a clear win over GABY Canizales, but he would have had his hands full with Orlando. I could see Orlando exploiting Chandler's sometimes sloppy attacks and doing some good body work. He'd give Pintor a good run too now that I think of it.

 

The eighties had a number of quality Bantams other than chandler and Pintor.

besides Canizales, there was also Lora, Jibaro Perez, Fenech and to a lesser extent Zaragoza and Vazquez.

 

Sorry there, not meant as an insult! Just thought you come across as an old school scouser that is into real men's sports, thought you might have known Alan somehow or came across him!

 

Well thanks to you two, im learning more about city heritage here, MDWC, i didnt know what you meant by The Vines until Al called it The Big House!! And Al i never knew your dadd had it!

 

Well, if your out of shape and in the ring against a very strong and physical guy like Rafael Herrera who on the other hand is in tip top shape then I don`t see why Rubens performance can`t be excused, especially since he performed much better in the rematch. Sure, he lost the return bout but the rounds he lost weren`t lost in overwhelming fashion, Ruben did some good work in them but Rafael was just more active and was the aggressor which is what tilted the round sin his favour. And like I said in my previous post Ruben did hurt Rafael in one of the later rounds and started backing him up for a change albeit in spurts, so it is not as if he couldn`t have turned the tables on him in a third fight. Maybe Rafale was his boogeyman stylewise, but I don`t think its set in stone though as you do, so we will have to agree to disagree on this one.