Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courage

People died in concentration camps because they disobeyed laws they abhorred , were they wrong?

 

This is going to get really messy...

 

Care to elaborate on their stories?

 

McVey...Why are you using such an abomination comparing innocent people
being incinerated in a furnace ,with serving your country as millions of other citizens have for generations ? i am not a debater, just a man who along with MILLIONS of Americans had to leave my beloved family and job
and obey the law...How can you who I respect as a knowledgeable boxing poster use such an anology ? Whether you like it or not , the USA has by and large carried the brunt of responsibility trying hard to preserve some semblance of freedom in this world..What would happen to Britain if citizens of WW2 ,refused to bear arms and seve their country...? They did it because this is how democracy works...You obey the law or you face
anarchy..Cannot you see this Mc ? A democracy cannot exist without laws, and my generation was called " the greatest" for a reason...My hero was Winston Churchill , who as someone said "mobilized the English language
and sent it in to battle ". What was good enough for Sir Winston trumps
the misguided ESB posters of today, and I fervently believe so...
Now back to boxing...Cheers...

 

The story about Liston and the midget scottish hooker in Mickey Duff's book.

 

How American of you to assume you and I live in the same country.

I don't care if you've been around the block or not, you're talking shite. Ali, my hero? Ha... Well that boat ain't going to float.

Surely by now you must see that life is not black and white - and that you shouldn't ask 'how high' when they ask you to jump. Laws in my country don't allow me to possess a weapon and shoot a man upon illegal entry to my property. Some (most?) states in your country allow this. If I bought a weapon in anticipation and then used it for home defence I would likely get torn a new one by the law. If you shot a man you could very well get off without much being said. We are both just people. Who's right and who's wrong?

Would you sign up for the war in Afghanistan, one that most people regard as a total **** up by our governments? Me neither. And if they told me I was going I still wouldn't go.

Anyway, we're talking about the Vietnamese war here which was hardly an invasion. I wouldn't fight for the government's interests, and that's what you'd be fighting for, not your own interests. Most people are aware that soldiers get treated like ****.

 

Manassa, I could care less where you live, "a rose by any other name will smell as sweet ". You don't like the war in Afghanistan ? NEITHER do I...
I don't like to pay my darn taxes ,but I do...I don't like to be body searched at the airport, but I bear the inconvenience...In a nation of 300 MILLION, we have to obey the law,[ unless only certain races are singled out ], or
a country cannot long survive...I hate war,cause i lost many acquaintences
but the mature and responsible way is to vote, so the laws can be changed...
Remember M, there are Millions who think opposite of you...What about their rights ?. Clay? Ali was not anymore intelligent than the VAST majority of citizens ,who left their homes and loved one's ,and did the right things...
He was no damn hero...That's for sure !
P.S. In WW2 there was a famous actor, Lew Ayres, who became a conscientuous objector and refused to fight, but VOLUNTEERED as an Ambulance Driver, and was in the midst of battle, saving many wounded
men on the battlefield...Now there was a man of "integrity"...

 

On Trollmann: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=22604&more=1

Ross, look at his life after his boxing career.

 

Difference being we went to war to honour an agreement to defend Poland if it was invaded. You went to war because you WERE attacked.
The US has a long history of supporting democracy, just as long as its their kind of democracy. Chile is just one example.

In my lifetime, and yours.
You had witch hunts in your country ,tacitly presided over by your government, were those who refused to name names in those appalling hearings wrong?

I don't call Ali a draft dodger, because he stood up and said I won't enlist, unlike a President of the US who dissapeared. Ali was willing to take the consequences of his action on the chin, whether you think he was right or wrong is immaterial, he sacrificed his prime years for something that HE believed in, with no certainty that he would not go to prison for it.

Ali was told he would be a morale booster as Louis was before him, he would not have seen action, he could have taken the easy route and complied , but he didn't. I for one ,respect him for that.

Winston Churchill is one one my country's greatest men , but he wasn't infallible.


There are a hell of a lot of people who now think the US should never have gone into Viet Nam.

I respect those who served ,and also those who said ,I think this is an unjust war , we have no business being in, and I won't take part in it. Consequently going to prison for their stand. I dont respect those who ****ed off to Canada or elsewhere . My point is, laws are not inviolable, there are good laws ,and bad ones,and the bad ones need to be challenged to change them. Otherwise we have the masses blindly obeying laws, and leaders ,that are just plain wrong as they did in Germany , that's why I used that analogy.
MY COUNTRY RIGHT OR WRONG DOESN'T GO WITH ME.
IT'S MY CONSCIENCE RIGHT OR WRONG :good

Back to boxing

 

I think it is controversial.......but he has definitely a lot of courage to do what he did in his era, I got it......
Emanuel Steward would strongly disagree with you two though, at least from what I remember from one of his interviews where he critized the man of Jack Johnson and blamed him for many things.....

 

You hate war? Good, I think we all do. But you'd still go along anyway.

 

burt's the kind of man who would gleefully stoke the ovens.

 

Thanks for the namecheck,Frankie :good


Actually,my views on Muhammad and the Draft issue are n't as cut and dried as you'd like to think. It's a very grey issue as far as I'm concerned. It's not a simple matter of him being brave for not going or NOT brave for actually going along with it. I see the situation as follows - Ali was under pressure from two sides. On one hand the government was pushing him to go. On the other,the Nation of Islam were pushing him not to.

My own theory is that Muhammad felt himself on a precipice and was n't initially sure which way to jump. The NOI had their way,as we all know. If he'd bucked the NOI he'd have deserved as much credit for doing so as he did for the decision he made.

The Vietnam war has been debated on previous threads on here. Just for the record,I consider it a total mess which would have burnt itself out comparatively quickly had North and South been left to it. 'Uncle Sam' had no REAL need to poke it's nose in.
I do appreciate that the Armed Forces are n't allowed the luxury of picking which wars are justified and which are not.

 

I go along with that. The **** that Jack and other black fighters had to take in those days was a bloody disgrace.

 

Only if YOU were in it lora...