Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courage

Courage I would certainly agree with. I think, however, we need to be careful here about the definition of "integrity" and "moral courage" when applied to a Jack Johnson. He did what he did for himself and himself only. I don't see him fitting this description.

 

Who in the USA [and that is the subject of this thread] was put in and died in a concentration camp Mc ? You darn well know it was the evil Hitler Regime that did this horrendous deed...How can you compare MILLIONS of Americans who SERVED their country as dupes of an evil society, whilst
others who pick and choose when and IF they want to serve, as men of
"integrity" ? I, Mc, and my buddy's were and are every bit as "noble" as you
though we went in the service willingly,even though we hated to disrupt our lives....Yes Mc , I'm every bit as moral as you knowing that as part of a vast country, we have to serve or bear the consequences...
And once again don't compare USA citizens serving their country with the
Nazi regime who put people in ovens..
P.S. What would have happened to your country under attack by the Nazi's
if the American boys in WORLD WAR 2, decided not to heed the draft laws
on grounds that they did not believe to serve 3000 miles away, by your pick and choose your war actions ...? What would have happened then if people thought like you and others? And yes those days there were isolationists in America who were against getting involved in a war 3000 miles away, but
they for the vast part obeyed the draft laws and served, and THANK GOD they did McVey...Cheers...

 

Nobody is arguing against the righteousness of fighting in world war 2.

 

I dont think the USA is the subject of the thread at all really, except that you have chosen to make it so. My country went into two world wars to defend the sovereignity of another country Belgium in WW1,Poland inWW2. Your country did not. You were forced into WW1 by the sinking of shippage . In WW2, you were attacked, and therefore presented with a fait accompli ,you had no choice but to enter the war, which by the way , we had been fighting for 2 years before you appeared. The USA did not enter the war to protect democracy , or to rescue the UK ,[ it had happily been supplying both sides in both wars, prior to getting involved.] It entered the war because it was attacked, and to protect its own interests. I believe that WW2 was a just war, and I would have served in it, just my opinion. . With the benefit of hindsight ,we can see that WW1 has less to recommend it, as far as participating goes.I hope I might have been brave enough to be a conscientious objector during that conflict.

As to what would have happened to the Allies if the US had not entered WW2 ?
I think we would have been defeated. Germany would have beaten Russia, then eventually ,with Japan, turned its attention on the States.
What would have happened to the US then? Fighting Germany , and the rest of the Axis powers alone?
Your martial track record since then is not that special is it? Korea, and Viet Nam were far from victories for you were they?



By the way it was Lew Ayres experience making the classic," All Quiet On The Western Front," that convinced him not to bear arms in WW2


Also ,apropos of nothing particular "Fighting Marine", Gene Tunney never saw action, he arrived in France after the grim stuff was all over.


I have never questioned your morals ,or principles Burt, I just happen to disagree with you on this one.

N.B .nothing remotely "noble about me.

Peace Brother.

 

Wars are rarely if ever really declared for noble causes.

Let's face it, Britain and France twice fought Germany because they didn't want Germany building an empire and dominating the world.
But Britain and France didn't have any problem with big empire and world domination in principle, as history shows. :good


Having said that, I'd have enjoyed bashing the evil Hun as much as the next man !

 

Many people would say that comparing our Empire to that of Nazi Germany's reflects favourably on ours,and I would be one of them.

As far as history is concerned ,it is France, not Germany that has always been our traditional foe.

 

Jack Johnson was a ****in idiot. Not brave.


Also, look up why his first wife killed herself, and I dare you to come back and call him brave.

 

very true, and the poles had to worry about Stalin ...this is not mention much but true

 

I'd agree with that too. But that's hardly why Britain and France declared war on Germany - twice.
Any form of German nationalism and expansionism would have been opposed in the same way by Imperialist Britain and France. It was 'convenient' that the Nazis truly were a pack of nasty *******s.

Yes, but things change. When Germany was unified in the mid-late-19th century, it became the most pressing rival to both Britain and France, and one that was rising up on the world stage too.


Not that this has anything much to do with the thread. I'm just saying, the men who declare the wars are motivated by causes that are usually far from noble.
That's no knock on the men who bravely fight in them - on all sides. :good

 

Peace and Lady Ga Ga to you Mc. But this darn thread started when some poster said that Clay/Ali refusing to go in to the USA armed forces, was an act of "integrity", No more, No less, Mc. I RESPONDED to this poster's assertion in a responsible way and others joined into the fray and expanded into political and philosophical realms, far far from the original thread...Take care and God Save the Queen...:good

 

duran deserves a mention

 

Why?

 

It's a kodak moment

 

i'll say this much, Ali fought more vietcong than Dempsey fought blacks

 

islam was a hate group back then, farakhan has admited many times he had a hand in malcolm X assasination, late 60s to mid to late 70s ali openly said he doesnt like white people, but then in the early 80s he left the nation of islam to become a soni muslim i belive?