Who was the best? Examples of boxers displaying personal integrity / moral courage

Well well, this thread devolved in excitable fashion, with some great contributions on the way.

I really tried to avoid the Ali nostalgia/controversy but perhaps that was the wrong strategy.

Anyway it seems there is a lack of clarity of the exact definitions of the terms in the thread title, Personal Integrity and Objective Moral Courage.

I would like to share my cliffnotes version.. and incomplete/flawed opinion/understanding of the exact nature of these behemoth concepts..*Someone who knows more or disagrees, please chime in.
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Personal Integrity - (origin Latin “integer,” meaning “whole.&#8221
The unification of :
-Personal Convictions
-Spoken Convictions
-Actions or Behavioral Convictions

A person who "is true to themselves, or walks the walk" as it were. When what they believe in thier minds, what they tell others they believe, and the belief thier actions and behaviors support are all synonymous = integrity.

THE COURAGE to have have personal integrity does not make one inherently a good person by default! For example I can say HITLER was a man of tremendous personal integrity, and also say he is an example of ultimate evil, and I have not contradicted myself. Personal Integrity means the courage to live, act and stand up for personal convictions you believe in regardless risk of embarrasment, loss of job, losing a friendship, relationship, public disgrace, unpopularity etc. Also an aspect of Moral Princples but just one aspect!

A man ahead of his time like Jack Johnson, may have had questionable morals, but certainly his integrity can be said to be legendary.

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Objective Moral Principles:

The objective and universal qualities and attributes that characterize what it means to be good. Virtues to strive for, (studied for thousands of years by religion and philosophy):

trustworthiness- (loyalty, reliability, honesty, integrity)

respect - (golden rule)

humility - (appropriate perspective, compassion, altruism/
non-attention seeking, unreturned, acts of charity)

responsibility - (accountability, self-autonomy)

justice


Unlike the personal convictions portion of personal Integrity, these moral principles are not something that can be picked and chosen at will. Simply,they can either be lived up to or not.

Moral Courage = when a person stands up for one or all of these objective universal values, and incorporates this into the fabric of his integrity.


Personal Convictions
Spoken Convictions
Acted on Convictions
+Objective Moral Convictions

I am not too familiar with the details of Max Schmellings acts of good, but from the accounts given here it sounds like he exemplifies moral courage.

 

Certainly, if nothing else the brown bomber can be said to show great forbearance and fortitude with the adversity he faced out of the ring.

The issue here I will take umbridge with is semantics or lack of agreed definition. See my above post for my understanding of Integrity, which under that umbrella Ali displayed in great quantities.
The issue you and others have is about the morality or the ethical nature of his decision. I will leave to you and others to hash out.

These observations of Schmeling inspire me to go more indepth in learning about the man and his life. Thank you.

Well, I certainly hope there is a difference, they are completely different situations. But they are both candidates for displaying different aspects of Moral Courage in my opinion.
I have a limited knowledge of Max Schmellings, and his integrity and charitability, just what I am reading here so if I misspeak someone please feel free to correct me. Anyway his actions really are unquestionably charitable and courageous. It displays the same physical courage needed for the ring (risking his life), while also showing his charitable and compassionate qualities.
Ali’s are much more controversial, but the situation was also much more complex, politically and socially explosive. It is really nonproductive to “compare” the two.
The backdrop of the Civil Rights, and Ali’s unafraid nature prompted his joining of such an extremist group. The intention for right and good and justice was there, perhaps its expression was questionable. But given someone prone to be unafraid to speak his mind, and act on what he believes, is joining such rash a group really an unpredictable or inappropriate response when the same person has a personal experience, understanding and observation of the past and continuing victimization of the group of people he racially belonged to and felt akin to?
Like I mentioned previously, we now know all the deficiencies with the group. But EVEN if you adopt the cynical viewpoint – that he was USED as a mouthpiece-- the loyalty he displayed, to take the brunt of the criticism, shame, losing his livelihood,reputation, fame, endorsments or however that worked back then, to face the unknown consequences in the face of such a decision still oozes a plethora integrity, loyalty, and honesty. How many athletes, or CEO’s or anyone else would give up their livelihood and reputation for the loyalty of others or for the principles he believed in?
It’s arguably a harder decision then the one Schmeling made, not because Schmelling risked his life, and there was probably some physical risk to Ali too, but Morally schmellings is a no-brainer. Help someone/risk your life or don’t. Ali’s situation, decision, and response was infinitesimally more intricate and colorfully complex.

Interesting! don’t know how much stock I would put into believing the homeless/wad of cash story though… at least the way you’ve presented it here

Any other thoughts ? Why Jack Johnson?

Care to expound? Why these guys? Why this order?

Agreed, plenty of courage and integrity ,but a deep abyss in moral principles

Haha!

Interesting. However this thread is for life and action away from the ring.. did you have any Burns anecdotes in this regard?