Who was the best fighter Sonny Liston beat ?

Well, Patterson's record wasn't the most impressive either. I suppose Machen and Johansson was his biggest scalps, and against Johansson he had one defeat.

 

Yes, not a very significant fight, really.

And I was more retorting your point that Williams did better than Patterson against Liston than trying to prove anything by a common-opponent result. A better way of expressing a general principle here: Howard King, Albert Westphal, Chuck Wepner and Bert Whitehurst all did much better than Patterson against Liston, as well. The majority of people Liston fought did better than Patterson against him, including ones with losing records.

Yes, he was clearly an emerging contender, but my point is that this is the only high-level win Williams ever managed, and even that was when the guy wasn't really on top.

And no contenders went worse than that against him. He never showed himself to be the master of any high-level heavyweight contender in several tries. Other fighters, like Folley and Patterson, bettered numerous high-level heavyweight contenders. If Williams had outstripped either Machen or Terrell, or even managed a win over Satterfield in adverse conditions, then I think there could be at least some argument for considering him the best fighter Liston beat.

You must be if you're saying he was the best fighter Liston ever beat.

He does look good on film, but I would say his record- even among that period- shows him to be at least an inferior fighter to Patterson.

Oh, yes, absolutely. If Williams had been fighting a pro debuter while himself having 35+ fights, even not for the title and against a Gold Medalist, it would've been seen as a bit ridiculous. That said, though he had subpar defenses, Patterson himself was undeniably a championship caliber fighter. When Williams stepped up against high-level contenders, he broke even at best; when Patterson fought top-level contenders, he consistently established himself as the better man against the majority of them. Jackson, Moore, Johansson (barely), Machen, Chuvalo, Bonavena- Patterson bested all of these guys. If Patterson had gone 1-1-1 against Jackson and Moore in his early big fights, he may have never had his two championship reigns and numerous battles with top contenders, either- not because he was just being ducked/unlucky, but because he came up short competitively in the fights which would have established him as a true championship-caliber fighter.

I think that, while he looks impressive film-wise, he wasn't actually on a Patterson's level in terms of ability. Just my opinion, also.

 

Skillwise definitely Patterson (although Floyd's prime weakness, his average chin- played right into Liston's hands).

I reckon if Patterson had a stronger chin he'd have given Liston a helluva tough fight stylistically, as it was he had good recuperative powers but there's only so many times you can hit the canvas and rise against Liston before being counted out.

 

Liston's toughest test was definitely Machen.

 

Same here. Patterson was the best fighter Liston beat. After Patterson, its either Williams, Machen, or Folley for the 2nd best win on Liston’s resume. I'd lean slightly toward Williams’ over Machen and Folley as Liston's 2nd best win.

The Big cat was at his best when he and Liston went to war. Williams actually busted Liston up, and had him bleeding after round one in their first fight. Machen and Folley didn’t come close to doing anything like this, which is why I give Williams the nod for the #2 slot, even though one build a good argument that that Machen accomplished more, and lasted the distance vs Liston.