Who was the best white american fighter of all time?

Pound for pound: Greb

Head to head (under his own rules): Jeffries

Head to head (under modern rules): probably Dempsey

 

no disrespect but what a stupid thing to say.. loud mouth idiot or not what has that to do with ali's boxing skills ?? second : there is a lot you can say about mike tyson but sure as hell not that he is a coward. that goes for all boxers in my opinion pro or amateur.. as soon as you step into a ring to fight another man (also well trained and educated in fighting techniques) then you are not a coward.

but to answer you're question : roberto duran (don't no if you consider an hispanic as white but he sure ain't black.

 

As many have mentioned, boxrec is seriously incomplete when it comes to 1920s fighters' records. And note that I made it in a head-to-head sense.

True, Dempsey didn't face black fighters. On the other hand, he was the man-who-beat-the-man-who-beat-the-man in a linear sense, which no white American of his caliber has been since that time. As to the other guys: Sharkey got beaten by an old Dempsey, Tunney would probably have lost a prime-for-prime matchup, Braddock wasn't in Dempsey's league.

Cooney, Quarry, Morrison, et al never made it to the same level.

A case could be made for Marciano, except that this thread is apparently excluding Italian people as "white Americans" according to previous posters....which I find very odd. Also, I think Dempsey beats Marciano based on styles.

 

I heard that too but who really knows the ins and outs of something so poorly docemented such a long time ago. I mean every fighter avoids another fighter in their careers one way or another.

 

What historical impact did Sullivan make on a positive note?????

Going to England a beating a M/W???

Going to Australia and fighting no one, the sulking upon his return to the USA of his unfair treatment for not facing a sole??

Refusing to face a Peter Jackson??

Perhaps the historical impact Sullivan made was simply refusing to fight worthy contenders, regardless of colour.

 

Boxing in it's present form probably would not exist if not for Sullivan. It's he who promoted Queensbury rules and got boxing more or less accepted by the authorities.
So I'd say his historical impact was pretty friggin' huge.

 

Oh really???

****ing amazing news that is!!!

Seems odd that both Australia and England had been contesting in Queensbury Championship bouts for 15 years before Sullivan vs Corbett.

Jem Mace had convinced Larry Foley, the last Australian bareknuckle king, to try on the gloves in 1878 against Peter Newton. The bout was the possibly the first legal fight to the finish with gloves in Australia. Plenty of gloved 'exhibitions' had been engaged prior, yet Foley was the H/W king here and only one more title bout without gloves would ensure post this fight.

With Sullivan tackling Dominic McCaffrey with the gloves aslo, much later than 1878, I suggest the seeds had already been well planted as for bareknuckle fights becoming a thing of the past. Sullivan had offers from numerous parties whilst boozing his way around the Eastern states of Australia when he toured here.. needless to say, he relented every single offer.

I dont believe for a second that Sullivan had any major impact on the gloves becoming accepted, nor will I conceide that Sullivan and Corbett would have had a hope in hell of fighting bareknuckle in any State or Country at that time... being 1892.

Sullivans big mouth may have allowed the American Sportswriters to paint a pretty picture of him, declaring world dominance as the geographically ignorant followers of the day must have felt he is, yet his career is farscical and hollow, as were the sportswriters... they dont appear to have changed a great deal in the last century.

 

In regards to now, why aren't there any good white fighters coming out of the more deprived city areas that used to produce good white fighters, that still have reasonable amount white people in them anyway?

I say this because obviously 95% of the time the best fighters come not the nicest places to live.... that's what gives tham that hunger that a more well off person don't really have.

 

Sullivan was absolutely instrumentan in the Queensbury rules becoming ubiquitous.

While Queensbury bouts had taken place for a long time before Sullivan came allong tey were not regarded as real boxing matches and a title would never change hands based on a Queensbury bout.

Sullivan defeated Joe Goss in a Queensbury bout while Goss was the champion but nobody regarded Sullivan as the champion because the bout had not taken place under London Priae Ring Rules.

Sullivan basicaly wretled the title from the bareknuckle champions by beating them at their own game but then insisted on defending it under Queensbury rules. This led to Queensbury fights being regarded as more legitimate and ultimately becoming the norm.

When Sullivan defeated Paddy Ryan he brought the title under the control of a Queensbury fighter and held it hostage from the LPR fighters who were still heavily backed by the medcia. This let to the first title defences taking place under the Queensbury rules.

When Sullivan defeated Jake Killrain he effectivley rounded up the last of the Dinosaurs and proved the superiority of the best Queensbury fighters over the best LPR fighters.

 

Dempsey

 

I don't know....Jews are Caucasoid, but aren't they Semitic?

 

Harry Greb
Benny Leonard
Willie Pep
Barney Ross
Bob Fitzsimmons
Jimmy McLarnin
Tony Canzoneri
Mickey Walker

There's 8. I'm having trouble narrowing it down to the last two with guys like Marciano, Tunney, Kid Lewis, Britton, McFarland, Driscoll, Wilde, etc.