Who was the better defensive fighter between these 5 fighters ?

Next time you should go outside and cool off. You big meanie.

 

this is a tough question. Each had defense different. I don't think McCallum was as great in defense as those other guys, he was just a great counterpuncher so that prevented guys from opening up. Starling probably was hit the least to the head than any of them, but it did not translate to elite level since at times it limited his offense. He would be there holding his hands to his face, and that limited how quickly he could be offensive.
I would go
Floyd
Toney
Starling
Wright
McCallum

 

Toney has to be near the top here I dont know how anyone coud dispute it. Who is the guy who fought the biggest punchers and got hit the least? Toney rarely got hit cleanly and he fought in a telephone booth.

 

That's a fair call.

 

Voted Mayweather

 

Some sort of 3 way tie between Mayweather, Toney, and Winky IMO. Mayweather and Toney have great defenses that allow them to transition to offense rather fluidly. As far as bullet time stunts Toney is clearly the most talented, IMO. Mayweather's minimalism is an asset that probably lends itself the most towards winning a fight. Winky's defense is different from those two though. It's a defense that relies on guard and blocking above all else. He didn't take many hits at all... But how effective of a fighter was he?

I think Mayweather is the right answer. His method seems to win the most fights. It's a nice compromise between blocking and parrying and upperbody movement, and in his prime his footwork was stellar.

 

I'd say Mayweather.

However there is a few points I would like to mention.

One, that I find completely surprising is Toney is being underrated here generally. I know, that never happens. I think his defence really is stellar, but you have to remember I consider defence the ability to make your opponent miss then punish him, making him miss, and doing nothing after it, isn't defence its running IMO.

So Toney here is superb at that, he almost always makes an opponent pay for making them miss, and he's right up standing with them whilst doing it. Saying that he is surprisingly hittable for a 'defensive genius' but he is more offensivly minded than most people give him credit for.

Secondly, I do not really rate Wrights defence. IMO its better to make someone miss completly than shell up and take it, for a few reasons but mainly by you just blocking it you'r allowing you'r own offence to be negated, purley by your opponent throwing punches, if you had slipped the punch you would have been able to not take the shot and then hit back your opponent without completly comprisiming your offence.

So for that reason I don't really rate Wrights defence as it ties up his offence a great deal. He can't counterpunch, at least not in the true sense, out of his posture. And one of the pillars of a great defensive fighter has to be counterpunching.

 

Good post.

I agree with you in large parts with Toney, but his immobility can harm him against good movers that use angles, stay busy and get in and out. Jones is one obvious example, but also in the rematch against McCallum he took many scoring (but not very hurtful) punches when staying flatfooted. Very, very hard to hit cleanly, though.

 

Wright did make up for the fact opting to shell up lets the opponent have the initiative by having excellent timing with his jab though.

It takes really exceptional timing to be any kind of top-notch counterpuncher from a full guard shell defence like that, and it's one thing he and Starling both had.Albeit starling was vastly smug and often squandered countering chances because he was so enamoured with his defensive skill like Hilario Zapata, Locche, Lora etc..

Starling never really had that great a jab either, which really shows how good his counterpunching timing was.A monster when he could be bothered to stop clowning around.I think he used subtle angles in conjunction with the guard better than Winky, who always looked more open to good no-nonsense straight shots down the middle of the guard.That's one of the main reasons i'd expect Kalule to edge Wright in a duel of featherfisted southpaw 154/160 technicians incidentally.

 

Winky is a great example of how 'keep yer hands high' isn't necessarily a boxing ten commandment as a lot of people make it out to be. Like you said lora i think we'd find that the majority of defensive wizards in all eras tend to rock at least their lead rather low.

It's very very hard not just to counter from a high guard but to draw a guy out into making a lead. The difference can be made with feints and smaller steps, but still. A more effective 'passive' defense for the Pacquiao/Cotto/Khan types who are lacking in proficiency with other blocking or movement based defense. And it becomes more and more effective and viable as a strategy as gloves get bigger.

 

Exactly. I think there's a distinction between being defensive and having great defense. Wright does not belong with the likes of Floyd and Tonney as far as I'm concerned.

 

I agree there.

The jab doesn't have much to do with his defence really, though. His jab was pretty much his whole offence, and albeit, effective he wasn't really great in any area IMO.

 

Yeah, i know it's his offensive style, just felt like rambling a bit on the difficulties of initiating counter jabs and stuff out of that sort of defensive approach.

 

Fair enough.