Who was the better fighter: PBF or Pea?

If Pernell Whitaker beat Canelo, Cotto, Pacquiao, Marquez, De La Hoya, Mosley, Judah, Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Gatti and Genaro Hernandez ... and went unbeaten for 20 years ... and made a billion dollars in the ring ... and became the richest athlete in all sports ...

And Mayweather beat Ramirez, Haugen, Pineda, Nazario and McGirt ... and quit in his last fight against a journeyman on basic cable when he got punched in the armpit ...

This conversation wouldn't be happening.

Who's trolling is obvious.

 

Red Herring and moving the goalposts much? YOU SAID, May was better at EVERYTHING than Pea, and I've proven this is blatantly false. That isn't the case now is it. So I accept your concession on the first point and how the argument got started.

Then you keep acting like I think Haugen and Roger were his best wins, as if I said that, or even alluded to that when I did no such thing. I listed much better wins than those, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you keep on bringing those up all the time. You mentioned names like Mosley, Hoya and Pac...acting like they were prime or anywhere near the peak of their powers. Whitaker did exponentially better while past his best, against a peak Oscar. May, could barely squeak by a split decision against a weight drained, past his best Hoya. They are worlds apart, and Pea did better.

Are you finally realizing that Pea beat Nelson at LW, not WW? Did you realize MM moved back to WW only after more fights and he could "properly" grow into the weight? Nelson was moving up one division, Marquez was moving up 2, AGAIN by the demands of May. Odd, somebody as good as you say he is, needs to make all these demands in fights? Why is that? When did Pea make such demands or generate catch weights to give him an advantage. Please list those fights for me. Oh wait, they don't exist, odd.

You still never answered the question, you just pontificated, WHICH fights of Corrales and wins, put his so decidedly ahead of Roger. I'm waiting for that answer. An answer that will probably never come.

You keep forgetting that May lost to Castillo in their first fight and plenty of people thought so. Pea already beat a better version of Castillo in Chavez. Pea would've bossed Castillo that night, but May couldn't.

Nice false analogy, but not a factual one. Hoya bossed May with his Jab the times he threw it. He obviously stopped throwing it later in the fight as he got tired, but when he was, he bossed Floyd. Name me one fighter who outjabbed Whitaker? ****, that was an old past his best Oscar, and he still out jabbed May, a peak Hoya was controlled by Pea's jab. This poops all over May, and nasty.

So, let's recap, you have NOBODY on May's record that was as good a win a Chavez or anything close to replicating that. You have nobody on your list that is as good of a win as McGirt x2... Keeping in mind McGirt 2 was a dominating performance. You failed to name anything even remotely close to that level. Nothing you named worked for the Nelson performance, maybe it's cause you didn't even know when and where the fight took place. So unless you provide fights that May has, that are on this level of foe and domination, I accept your concession that May doesn't have all better wins than Pea

 

BTW still waiting for you to answer yet another question you avoided... Did you score it for Chavez over Whitaker?

 

no he got him to weigh in low. That is the problem with that fight. He took a little confidence from Canelo by doing that. Why couldn't he fight Canelo at 154.. ????

 

Agreed Totally

 

I can't believe this

Look, you're lying to yourself. This isn't a "fantasy matchup." Whitaker and Mayweather fought in the same divisions, except Floyd actually fought and won a title (over Azumah Nelson's conqueror no less) at 130 pounds, too.

You're looking at a 142-pound Julio Cesar Chavez and asking who did Mayweather beat that was as good a win?

Well, who on Mayweather's record would've kicked the 142-pound, 89-fight Julio Cesar Chavez's @ss?

Quite a few guys, actually. I'd take the super welterweight Canelo Alvarez to beat the 142 pound Chavez. Same with Miguel Cotto. De La Hoya. Mosley (after spanking Margarito). Pacquiao. The list goes on.

This isn't a fantasy matchup. Put Chavez in a ring with Alvarez ... and who wins? Yes, Chavez has a better record. But he was much smaller and much older than the Canelo was when he fought Mayweather.

Your questions ignore reality.

Who did Ali beat that had a better record or was more accomplished than Archie Moore? Basically no one. Archie Moore had more KOs than anyone else Ali fought. He was a more dominant champ than anyone Ali fought. But Archie Moore was an easy win compared to younger, bigger, stronger guys Ali fought later.

Chavez had an excellent overall record. Same with Moore. But Chavez wasn't "****" at welterweight - which is where he fought Whitaker. Hell, Frankie Randall dropped Chavez on his butt in Chavez's actual division and took his title four months later. And Randall wasn't anything special.

When you're talking about two guys like Mayweather and Whitaker, and you ask who beat better comp ... you don't have to compare apples to oranges. They fought in the same divisions.

Think Chavez could beat Canelo's @ss? No.

So an old, blown up Chavez wasn't a tougher opponent than someone like Canelo Alveraz at super welterweight. He just wasn't.

Mayweather fought a number of guys who could've beaten the hell out of a 142-pound Julio Cesar Chavez.

So the answer to your question is YES, MAYWEATHER beat quite a few guys who were better than the Julio Cesar Chavez who Whitaker faced.

Would Azumah Nelson beat the junior middleweight Canelo Alvarez? Would Azumah Nelson beat Cotto at super welter?

Then beating Canelo and Cotto are better wins than beating Nelson. According to STATS you might make an argument in Nelson's favor (like you could with Old Archie Moore and Ali.)

When you put the two guys (Cotto and Nelson) in the same room and ask two champs from 130-to-154 like Whitaker and Mayweather who would be tougher to beat ... it wouldn't be little Azumah Nelson.

Just like if you put old Archie Moore in a room, and put George Foreman and Ken Norton in there, Foreman and Norton would be the tougher outs.

Mayweather beat a number of guys Whitaker would've been an underdog against. Nobody Whitaker beat would've beaten Mayweather.

Again, this isn't some mythical question where you have some light flywweight against a heavyweight, and you're trying to determine how to measure the quality of light flyweights opponents and heavyweight opponents.

Mayweather and Whitaker fought in the same divisions. Look at the guys Floyd beat from 130 to 154 - Canelo, Cotto, Pacquiao, Marquez, De La Hoya, Mosley, Judah, Gatti, Castillo, Corrales, Hernandez ...

Look at Pernell and who he beat from 135 to 154 ... and it's Nelson (fighting above weight), Chavez (fighting above weight), McGirt and Haugen.

It's no comparison.

Overall, Mayweather beat better competition. And Mayweather beats everyone Whitaker beat from lightweight to super welter.

But you can't say the same for Pernell.

Mayweather was better than Whitaker. He proved it in the ring. He was undefeated for 20 years against better guys than Whitaker beat.

You don't have a leg to stand on. So I don't know why you're arguing with me.

 

Acelino Freitas. Joel Casamayor. Jose Luis Castillo. Angel Manfredy.

 

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Why couldn't Whitaker fight Terry Norris at 154?

 

Ramirez was in his 110th fight (and second to last fight). He certainly wasn't the guy who gave Alexis Arguello problems FULL DECADE EARLIER.

And Greg Haugen was nothing special. Vinny Paz showed his superiority at every range against Haugen a year later. Big deal Whitaker outpointed Haugen. Haugen wasn't any better than Ricky Hatton, who Mayweather wasted.

Who wins in a fight between Greg Haugen and Ricky Hatton? It ain't Greg Haugen.

 

I've never scored it. The night of the fight, I thought Whitaker won. Most did. But as we've seen countless times, you sometimes have to do more than potshot and mug your way to win over a big star.

Four months later, Frankie Randall beat up Chavez, flattened him, and won a razor thin decision. That's what it took.

Whitaker didn't have the power to do that to Chavez and Whitaker didn't have the desire to get in a fight like that. It was his big moment, and he decided to play it safe. Everyone from Jimmy Young to Jersey Joe Walcott to Carl Williams could've told him not to do that.

But when you aren't good enough to beat someone down ... and you leave your life in the hands of the judges .... that's what happens sometimes.

Like Oscar and Tszyu and Randall and others showed, you tended to have to BEAT UP Chavez and practically stop him to win. Outslicking him wasn't going to cut it.

As others also showed, Chavez could have his will broken. Whitaker never came close to doing that. It wasn't a dominant performance at all and not very entertaining.

People expected more from Whitaker and Chavez. They didn't get it from either. It was a ho-hum fight. The judges called it even. Everyone went home dissatisfied.

 

The best win (actual win, where Pernell's hand was raised in victory at the end) of Pernell Whitaker's career was probably a decision over Azumah Nelson when Nelson moved up in weight for one fight.

You could make the argument Mayweather knocked out someone better than Nelson in Mayweather's first title win. And Floyd still had 19 undefeated championship-filled years to go.