Who was the better heavyweight Tami Mauriello or Elmer a Ray?

https://thegruelingtruth.net/boxing/elmer-ray-the-humble-man-of-hastings/

Great article on Ray.

Tons of info


A few I’ll hit on


Talks a lot about Burley-Ray sparring session. Ray floored Burley and OLoughlin stopped the sparring session



“ In 1944, O’Loughlin tried to talk some of the leading heavyweights like Joe Baksi and Tami Mauriello into fighting Ray, but they wouldn’t take the bait. Then, towards the end of the year, O’Loughlin got a huge publicity opportunity to boost Ray’s chances at the world heavyweight title. Joe Louis, the reigning heavyweight champion of the world, scheduled a string of eight exhibitions in November of 1944. When Ray was mentioned as an opponent for one of Louis’ exhibitions it was reported that Louis turned down Ray as a possible opponent.

When asked why, the champ allegedly said, “I can’t box no exhibition with that Ray. That man can’t do anything but fight. Maybe I can fight him later, but a boxing exhibition with him is impossible ’cause he wouldn’t know how to box back. He’d start swinging for keeps and one of us would get hurt.”

When Ray heard what Louis said, he jokingly asked: “What else is there to fighting but to punch the daylights out of the other fellow?” Of course, O’Loughlin ran with the statements from Louis claiming the champ feared his fighter. He made sure to tell anyone who was willing to listen that his fighter was being ducked. Louis and his team explained they had no fear of Ray, but that Ray simply wasn’t able to fight a light exhibition because he only knew how to punch and there was a concern of accidental headbutts with Ray’s bobbing and weaving style.”

Joe Louis on Ray in 1945 “that big boy is plenty dangerous for anybody.”

Throughout 1944 and 1945, O’Loughlin offered fights to Lee Oma, Joe Baksi, Tami Mauriello, Arturo Godoy, Lou Nova and Jimmy Bivins, with them all turning down a chance to fight Ray

 

On paper, Ray belongs in Tier I


Ray knocked out Savold in 2 easy rounds

Ray beat Walcott and Charles

How is he closer to Savold than he is Walcott and Charles?


“Tier 2 and Tier 3 “

Mauriello had a 0-6-1 record against Teir 2.

 

Louis Ray Exhibition Jan 1949

Louis stated, “If Ray shows enough against me in Miami, and if the public thinks he’s a good contender, I’ll be satisfied to have him as a contender for the title.” Ray and Louis were scheduled for their exhibition on January 25, 1949, at Miami’s Orange Bowl. The bout was scheduled for 6 rounds with each round being 2 minutes long with both men wearing 14 oz. gloves. A crowd of 12,211 paid a handsome gate of $35,658.80 to see Ray and Louis in action. From the opening bell, Ray took the fight to Louis and remained the aggressor throughout the bout. Ray bobbed and weaved, slipped and ducked scoring at times but Louis piled up points with his telephone pole of a left jab.

In the last round, they stood and exchanged blows to finish out the fight. Of course, no official decision was made because it was an exhibition but sportswriters did give their scoring of the fight. A poll of sportswriters all agreed Louis had won but Ray had put up an interesting fight. In the end, Louis had some swelling under his left eye while Ray’s right eye was swollen from Louis’ left jabs. Louis laid on a rubbing table, calm, relaxed and ready to answer questions. Someone asked if Ray ever hurt him, Louis replied: “No, he didn’t hurt me. Only landed one good one – a right hand just before the bell. Came up out of that crouch and caught me. But I did what I wanted to. I saw that right of his coming a couple of times and stopped it with a left jab. That Ray shouldn’t have any fat around the middle with all those exercises he does out there.”

Ray was disappointed he couldn’t drop Louis but was happy with his performance. “I think I shook him up a little. I thought the whole fight was about even. It might have been different with lighter gloves…. I tagged him a couple of times,” said Ray.

 

What makes you think Tier 2 was so close to Tier 3?

Did anyone on Tier 3 defeat a fighter in Teir 2?

Why do you rate Mauriello and Savold near Bivins? Bivins went 3-0 vs Mauriello and Savold.

Trying to understand your logic here

 

Agreed

 

I haven’t read one fight report that stated they thought Mauriello won of the Bivins fights. If you have it, post it. If you don’t, you can’t say “arguable” could have gone either way. Close fight, yes, but Bivins deserved the nod in both cases.

Not only did Bivins go 3-0 vs Savold and Mauriello which is by far the most important factor here, but Bivins also had the much better resume if you go through it.

So head to head plus better resume, plus the fact Bivins was recognized as duration HW champion while Savold and Mauriello were actively fighting, plus higher rating by NBA, plus better longevity, how can Mauriello and Savold possibly compare to Bivins?


No, these results don’t paint them comparable at all. Bivins was on a Tier above clearly


On a side note, I also think Bivins looks much more skilled on film than either Mauriello or Savold.

 

What makes you think Tier 2 was so close to Tier 3?

Did anyone on Tier 3 defeat a fighter in Teir 2?

Mauriello’s record against Teir 2 was 0-6-1. You seriously think he belongs there?

 

That seems like a backwards way of thinking. I just think you’re such a huge Louis fan, you can’t accept that he missed out defending his title against a key fighter of that era.

 

I don’t think anyone in this forum believes I am overstating my case with the opinion of Elmer Ray was a better heavyweight than Tami Mauriello

Again, my opinion is Elmer Ray was a better heavyweight than Tami Mauriello.

If you disagree with that opinion, then I would love to see your rankings of heavyweights 1940-1950 and see where ray and Mauriello falls on your list