Who was the first elite super heavyweight?

It’s a fair point about Bowe’s weight in that by far his best win came when he weighed under 240.

Looking beyond his weight, he was clearly a “big” guy. Even when he weighed mid 220s against Seldon, he seemed much bigger.

I think the point is that Bowe/Lewis were the first guys of their height and builds who brought a wide range of skills in addition to their size. Willard and Carnera’s main advantage was size.

It’s all really subjective though. Ruddock and Bruno both outweighed Lewis, and I don’t recall people talking about Lewis being the “super-heavy” prior to those fights. Picking Bowe/Lewis as the first of their type feels right, but it doesn’t take long to pick holes in it.

 

Tate and Coffey were not elite heavyweights.

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Super skinny Armstrong

 

Coffey was the number 1 contender in 1915 and after losing his eliminators to Moran remained an elite HW until late 1917. Coffeys KO% is higher than all the HW champs except Dubois, Wilder and Frank Bruno. If not for WW1 Coffey very well might have been champion he had a favorable draw with Carl Morris at a time Morris was generally considered the best contender.

Tate was the "colored" heavyweight champ and won that title off Langford before he got the Anderson KO. He had to fight Langford 9 times, Wills 6 times, Jeanette 4 times(in Tates first 12 fights), Kid Norfolk three times and Godfrey twice. Jim Johnson knocked him out in his 4th fight. Tate was an elite HW even if his record didn't show it.

 

There were no ratings in1915.
Coffey's ko % is built on a lot of cannon fodder ,and totally washed up former names like
Pelkey
Flynn
Kearns .
Any fighter could rack up an impressive ko record fighting dross.
Tate was never elite,he is famous for his role as a sparmate.
Yes he fought all those names,and how many of them did he beat?

 

If Tate was not considered elite then why was beating him a braggable win to the press of the day?

 

Id say Willard or Primo but elite doesn't really Go along side their names really.

 

Coffey v Moran fights were eliminators after Coffey beat Morris the first time and Morris was considered the top HW contender for much of 1916 and 1917.

Tate was the "colored" champ at the single most difficult time to acheive that honor. He had a winning record against Langford, got a DQ against Wills and a draw went the distance with him twice. Not trying to say Tates better just that he was elite.

Coffeys KOs include Jim Flynn, Tony Ross(who had had career resurgences around this time), Al Reich, Rodel and Gunboat Smith.

 

IMHO it's Bowe (Holyfield 1 fight), but I'd put the line between "small" heavyweights and modern Superheavyweights at 235 pounds.

 

How about John Tate? 6’4, 240 and only a slightly worse career than Bowe.

 

Slightly? lol

 

Sure. Bowe got to number 1 in the division. Tate got to number 2. Tate won a title, but lost it in his next fight in a match he almost won. Ditto Bowe, except he squeezed in two money grabs against trash before losing. Tate then fell off horribly, whereas Bowe beat a crappy version of Holyfield in a slop fest, had a few farcical WBO defenses, and then fell off horribly.

If you can’t see the parallels, idk what to tell you.

They even knocked off the top South African contender to get a title shot, although Tate had the tougher opponent in front of him.

 

He does have somewhat of a point about Tate. He medaled in the 76 Olympics. Was unbeaten in his first 20 fights and won a world title. At 6’4” 235-240 lbs he met the size parameters. He was also a very good boxer with a decent punch. His downfall was his lack of a chin. Again, I guess it depends on one’s definition of “ elite. “
EDIT: sorry I was just told you were talking about bill Tate. Not John Tate

 

After Carnera killed Schaaf they were calling for a "super dreadnaught" class in the papers, he emphatically is the first of the ******ed claims of "Super heavyweight". Even kinda fights like a young Anthony Joshua

 

John was elite but I think he was referring to Bill, who certainly was not.