Who was the greatest heavyweight wrecking machine of all time?, an analysis.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jun 9, 2009.


Page 1 of 3
  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #1
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #2
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected

    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected


    This content is protected

    This content is protected
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #3
  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    Ranking them

    This content is protected


    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    This content is protected


    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    This content is protected


    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    • This content is protected
    This content is protected

    This content is protected
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #4
  5. Muchmoore

    Muchmoore Guest

    Cool thread!

    The only downside is that Louis simply had so many more fights against contenders than everyone else. Tyson and Dempsey were faster starters imo but didn't have as many fights against contenders as The Brown Bomber so for total number of early stoppages they suffer.
     
    Muchmoore, Jun 9, 2009
    Muchmoore, Jun 9, 2009
    #5
  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    279
    Oct 4, 2005
    Nice thread, looks like a sound analysis. I will add that this says something about how many "key" opponents one has fought, as much as it does about the "wrecking" factor.

    You'd probably get a better indication if you'd divide the score by the total number of key opponents fought.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jun 9, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Jun 9, 2009
    #6
  7. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    101
    Dec 26, 2007
    Sound reasoning.
     
    Sweet Pea, Jun 9, 2009
    Sweet Pea, Jun 9, 2009
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    114,822
    51,909
    Mar 21, 2007
    Big difference between Louis and the field.
     
    McGrain, Jun 9, 2009
    McGrain, Jun 9, 2009
    #8
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    This is a valid observation.
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #9
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    John L probably suffers a bit from the lack of information available about the top fighters of his era. I have only taken into acount wins over oponents who held or claimed the British or American title which were more or less equal at the time and used as the benchmark for who was the world champion.

    I think that Bob Fitzsimmons comes out of it prety well given that I have only taken into acount heavyweight opponents.

    Joe Louis might owe his lead over the field to quantity as much as quantity though I do think this analysis undermines claims that he was a slow starter. Allong with Louis I would say that Dempsey, Liston and Tyson clearly stand out from the field.

    The analysis does suport the view that Marciano needed rounds to finish oponents and the same is even more true of Joe Frazier.

    Foreman despite his high overall score dosn't have a first round stoppage of a world class oponent so the anti old timer faction should think twice before they answer every fantasy matchup between an old timer and a more modern fighter with the usual juvanile response "modern fighter KO1".

    Lewis's score has to be considered impresive given that he rarely atempted to go for the knockout early.
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #10
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    98,716
    30,652
    Jun 2, 2006
    Interesting idea ,but if you have 25 defences the likelyhood is you will have more "key opponents", with more opportunity to ko them inside 4 rds.
    man for man I would go for Dempsey.
     
    mcvey, Jun 9, 2009
    mcvey, Jun 9, 2009
    #11
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    I am sort of bending to that view myself but it should be note that Louis scores prety high on quality as well as quantity here.

    For example his best two stoppages in rounds 1, 2 and 3-4 would match up prety respectably to anybody elses.
     
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    janitor, Jun 9, 2009
    #12
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    98,716
    30,652
    Jun 2, 2006
    Anyone who thinks Louis fits the picture , gets no argument from me.:good
     
    mcvey, Jun 9, 2009
    mcvey, Jun 9, 2009
    #13
  14. leverage

    leverage Active Member Full Member

    1,372
    16
    Dec 27, 2006
    George Foreman, Mike tyson, Joe Louis, sonny liston, rocky marciano
     
    leverage, Jun 9, 2009
    leverage, Jun 9, 2009
    #14
  15. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    158
    Mar 4, 2009
    Earnie Shavers KO'd Ken Norton (KO1), Jimmy Ellis (KO1), Jimmy Young (TKO3), Joe Bugner (TKO2), Henry Clark (KO2), Howard Smith (KO2). In total he had 22 KO's in the first round, 55 inside the first 4 rounds.

    I would say that Joe Louis could be a very fast starter actually, few survived the first round against him without taking a battering.
     
    TheGreatA, Jun 9, 2009
    TheGreatA, Jun 9, 2009
    #15
Page 1 of 3