My point, which I should have thought was obvious ,is that Moore has a fantastic number of kos but many of them were not over legitimate heavyweights. Foreman and Shavers are universally considered top tier heavyweight punchers by anyone who has been awake for the last 50 years and follows boxing. I have never seen any creditable boxing writer claim that Archie Moore was one of the great heavyweight punchers. Have you? If you have please give us his name.
Moore was offered a fight with an old Louis , he refused on the grounds that, "I respected him too much". Louis made many statements over the years openly saying his power was no longer there during his comeback because he could not react in time to opportunities.. The clips I posted for Choclab show that when Louis mounted an offensive his opponents willingly traded with him and sometimes got the better of the exchanges. That would not have occured against the Brown Bomber. I don't expect you to claim Louis was still a top tier ko artist after 1948. If you do I will be surprised. That's as near a compliment as you will probably ever get from me.
I'm happy to look at the others I just didn't see how they were relevant. I think the fact that Baker and Lavorante were stopped on their feet without being down is relevant too! Add to that Bivins was stopped in two of his defeats by Moore on his stool, one with an eye injury. Novels are fiction, what I have posted are facts!
I agree. But I would say that he's become perhaps overrated generally, and as a 'cute' boxer, while his punching power has become more under-appreciated.
Exactly. And the best way is through a sceptical reasoning method. Interestingly, Earnie Shavers credited Archie Moore with developing his power.
So? Lyle's only knockout of a contender came after he was allowed to hammer the exhausted Shavers over and over again while he laid in the ropes untli he finally knocked him off them. By all accounts Lavorante was out on the ropes and Baker was realing. They would appear to be the same quality of knockouts, though unlike Shavers, Lavorante was a young contender with no previous knockout losses and Baker proved to be more sturdy than Shavers. And one corner retirement was after he dropped Bivins about 4 times. And he put Bivins down for the count in 1949 with a right hand to join Charles and Lem as the only men to knock him out for the count in his long busy career.
1, Mongoose has claimed 77 KOs for Moore in a post above. 2. Yes, and there are. But also, Foreman and Shavers earned that reputation largely by knocking over no-hopers in meaningless matches. No, I haven't. Not that I remember.
As a point of interest, I think Archie Moore rated Curtis Sheppard as the hardest puncher he ever faced. And Sheppard said the same about Moore, I believe.
1. 53 KOs actually of his 77 HW(180+) opponents. Which still puts him in the upper elite and well above many fighters normally refered to as big punchers. Of his 3 weight divisons, the majority of his KOs were over HWs. Than MW. At LHW he actually scored the least amount as facing Johnson, Charles, Maxim, multiple times probably had something to do with that. 2. Exactly. And as pointed out Moore has lots of quality as well. Moore is generally just referd to as an all time great puncher, because his power was equally effective in all three weight classes he fought in.
That's true. It's rarely been specified that he wasn't a big puncher when he went in the HW ranks. In fact, I'm sure I've seen him contrasted favourably to Bob Foster in that respect (Foster is said to have not been able to "carry his power" up to the HW division). I think Moore was lacking a bit in size and youth and even durability, when mixing with HWs, but not power.
Cassius Clay said Moore had him hurt and in trouble in the 2nd round, and Ebony magazine reported it as the hardest Clay had been hit to date. Of course, that was before Clay became Ali and fought a whole host of big punchers. On the other hand, Moore was about 49-years-old.