Who Was The Hardest Puncher Marciano Met?

Lovell is certainly to a degree a question mark. It is one of those the glass is half full and half empty sort of things. You are pointing at the half empty side.

The half-full side. Lovell seems to have been quite a bit better contender than Besmanoff.

Besmanoff fought a lot of good men, but lost most of the time and was basically an opponent. His overall record was 51-34-8 and he was stopped 11 times. Looking at The Ring's yearly heavyweight rankings, he has four victories over four men who appeared on these lists--Bob Baker, Alex Miteff, Pat McMurtry, and Mike DeJohn. Only Baker was ever top five.

Lovell had a much more impressive 76-8-3 with 1 NC record. He scored 55 knockouts. Looking at The Ring's yearly heavyweight rankings, Lovell has eight victories over five men who appeared on these lists--Hank Hankinson, Maxie Rosembloom, Andre Lenglet, Red Burman, and Arturo Godoy. Rosembloom, Burman, and Godoy were at one time top five. He was stopped on a TKO in his debut fight in 1934, and lost by DQ to Alfredo Lagay in the mid-forties, but reversed both losses with KO's. His other six losses were all to men rated at one time or another among the top five heavyweights--once to Gunnar Barlund, twice to Roscoe Toles (with one draw), and twice to Arturo Godoy (with Lovell defeating Godoy three times). Until the Moore fight, only Barlund and Toles had really gotten the better of him.

This is an admittedly thin resume, but there is also no reason to think he wasn't a decent contender for a title shot, much better than Besmanoff. He was the long-term champion of a country which consistently produced world class heavyweights. The records of most of his opponents down there are probably incomplete, but all we can say is that he swept them and had not been beaten except for a later reversed DQ for eight years. His best opponent during that period, Lagay, came to America and outpointed Tommy Gomez in his home town, Tampa.

Bottom line--Besmanoff was clearly slipping and losing most of the time. Lovell was old but winning, but it is hard to judge his opposition. The problem in a Moore with Foster comparison, is that Besmanoff is the whole heavyweight show for Foster, while Lovell is only one of many for Moore.

 

so you are really only speculating that Foster may have hit as hard as Archie as a heavyweight because there is zero proof based on Fosters record. Archie was a cagey boxer who happened to have great power and his power was enough to keep top Heavyweight contenders of his day on the losing end of the equation. Foster has a serious losing record against heavyweights and this is proven and his Besmanoff win was over a guy past his best(which was mediocre) that was losing at the time

Archie beat top rated Heavyweights and stopped Baker and Harold Johnson and beat Nino Valdes 2x and there was no walking through Archie but even Doug Jones got the stop over Foster and Doug Jones was fresh off a loss to Harold Johnson when he stopped Bob.

You can speculate and dream all you want but the facts do not support that Fosters power had any impact at heavyweight

 

5/12/62 Doug Jones lost to Harold Johnson 10/20/62 he KO'd Bob Foster...5 months is pretty fresh

You have a great imagination Walter Mitty and dismantling anyone lately :amen

 

5 months is pretty fresh even in the late 60's, I saw the draw and the loss that Doug Jones had to Harold Johnson but he still had enough to stop Bob Foster, I know you check boxrec so I think I was pretty strait about it.

As far as you holding a vendetta, like I said you can do what ever pleases you. I am a serious guy but I dont take this stuff serious, its all fun, I been posting on here about 10 years and I never had to take a plane to another country to bust someones arse :tired but I really don't think you can handle what you dish out :|

 

Bob satterfield in sparring sessions, and every body said that he did. Hit harder than marciano

 

A journeyman good for the odd upset. I listed a big group, I wouldn't get hung up on one name you disagree with.

Completely different. Charles had one final losing effort against a nobody after being knocked out by Logan. Baker fought on for 5 years against the men I listed. You know this.

And only one man technically knocked out Baker. :nut

 

you are a nutty old hen are you not and we can't blame it on the booze. You are just a finicky old biddy and dont tell me what I tried to do, I asked you a question and your answer proved my point. Mendoza is a good poster and has always been civil with me even though we dont always agree. I can handle anything you bring you old Biddy:amen

 

One sided rant here.

"To put Lovell in perspective, he drew with and lost to in and out, fringe contender Roscoe Toles"

Toles was a ton better fighter than Besmanoff. Besmanoff never appeared in The Ring's yearly heavyweight rankings. Toles did in 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, and 1942, rising to the #4 contender's ranking in 1942. If Toles is a fringe contender, where does that put Besmanoff? Over his career, Toles had wins over Arturo Godoy, Gunnar Barlund, Gus Dorazio, Jack Trammell, Buddy Walker, Lee Q. Murray, Freddie Schott, Nate Bolden, Al Hart, etc.,--Check The Ring's yearly rankings and you will find that all these men appear, six in the top five heavyweight listings. Toles was actually a rather good contender who should have gotten a shot at Louis' title.

As for Lovell, he was the #4 heavyweight contender in 1937, a year he beat Rosenbloom (ranked in 1936 and 1938), Burman (ranked in 1938, 1939, and 1940), Lenglet (ranked in 1937), and Hankinson (ranked in 1935, but slipping). He beat Godoy in 1938, 1939, and 1942, all around Godoy's strong showings against Louis. My facts are correct. Lovell has more wins over heavyweights who were ranked at one time or another than Besmanoff. I don't think there is much doubt Lovell was better in the late thirties or early forties than Besmanoff ever was. It is a legitimate point that it is difficult to know if he had much left by 1951, just as it is difficult to know if Besmanoff, never very good, had much left by the time Foster got to him.

"Lamar Clark"

He beat a former world champion and men who were, had been, or would be contenders? He hardly beat a guy with a winning record? Lagay would be a tremendous scalp for Clark.

Bottom line for me (to repeat)--I think that both Besmanoff by the time he got to Foster, and Lovell by the time he got to Moore, are mainly question marks, one losing to all good fighters he met, and being stopped frequently, and the other winning but against largely unknown competition. But Besmanoff is all Foster has. Lovell is just one of many for Moore, whose most impressive heavyweight knockout was over Bivins.

 

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There is an online site called,

BOB FOSTER BOXING

THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE OF HALL OF FAME LEGEND BOB FOSTER

This site lists his record, and does draw a distinction between KO's and TKO's.

Willi Besmanoff is listed as a TKO 3.


**Which means this whole putting Besmanoff down for the count thing is a big deal about nothing.

***this site also says "Your only source for certified authentic autographs straight from the champ."

****by the way, this is a very good website with a lot of info about Foster, plus films, etc.--I recommend visiting it.