So I just learned that SRR got his name bc a fighter actually named ray robinson didn't show up for a fight and he substituted it. I just find it surreal to think of being that man. Of missing a fight and ur name being taken by a young fighter who goes on to be considered the best of all time by most. Does anyone know anything about the actual guy? Did he have a real career? Did he ever do any interviews about it or anything? Just curious.
Right? Like imagine being that man. Especially if he tried to continue how own boxing career after. Man takes ur name and just does ur job better than anyone ever has.
It was almost unequivocally this gent: https://boxrec.com/en/box-am/1056799 Rationale: he also lived in Harlem and fought in the amateurs on the New York scene (presumably that 0-1 listed is an incomplete record... or who knows, maybe he was really one and done; in those days lots of guys fought in gym wars and "smokers" that didn't count officially) and was in the same weight range as SRR was in the final days of his amateur career. Funfact: the guy that knocked the "real" Ray Robinson out in his only listed bout, Hiram Jackson, later lost to a fella named Giuseppe Antonio Berardinelli (later better known as one Joey Maxim) in Berardinelli's/Maxim's amateur debut. Walker Smith Jr. fought a few times under his birth name, then adopted "Ray Roberts" for the remainder of 1938 into '39, and midway through his amateur career is when he stole RR's identity, carrying it through 1940 and, of course, on into the pros. It would be amazing if somebody could dig up an interview with the chap, if anybody ever thought of chasing him down in his lifetime. Probably zero chance he's still with us at this point.
Pretty much all boxrec amateur records are incomplete. Those results we have are usually in tournaments (major city/state Golden Gloves, national tournament and of course international competition including the Olympics, Pan Am Games, etc). And the farther you go back, the fewer such results are available. Most amateur results were never reported even locally and even where they were nobody is pouring through old newspapers to see who won and lost on a Saturday night in some armory in Topeka, haha. So likely this guy (if this is our guy) had more fights. (Or maybe he scheduled bouts all over and no-showed them all, haha).
There is an HBO documentary about his life. Tragic figure and not a particularly nice guy. Probably no better or worse than many fighters of his era.
Exactly, so who knows how extensive (or how good, in terms of W/L) a record RRR ("real Ray Robinson") had in the amateurs. Maybe his surviving family, if anything. His coaches, contemporaries and sparring partners would all be pushing or over a hundred by now.
Robinson did briefly mention him in an interview: Was there really a Ray Robinson? Sure, I see him around once in a while. I told him, "I borrowed your name and I always meant to give it back but I found out I couldn't." He was tending bar somewhere. But he was a fighter? He had the same record as George [Gainford] here. George had one fight in the old armory and got knocked out. His next fight was when they tried to get him back in again.
Oh wow, so then maybe he did in fact just have the loss to Hiram Jackson and then call it quits. Interesting. (in general though, @Richard M Murrieta made a good point - even modern amateur records can't be wholly trusted unless you're citing multiple amalgamated sources, and old ones pretty much need a Gibraltar sized grain of salt)
