Who wins, Clay or Ali?

good thread I like it , intresting

I'm leaning with the younger fresher clay myself but it could go either way

 

Clay. Younger, athleticism was incredible. Mentally sharper. Faster to attack, faster to defend, better reflexes.

 

Ali. He's bigger, stronger and more skilled.

Tough to go against a bigger and more skilled man.

 

I’m not done yet baby. Everything is good, ya know? I’m fine. Haha look at me, I’m still here aint I? Still standing as strong as can be. Still got my smile and still looking pretty. No matter what he throws at me, I still keep coming forward. I just keep on bobbing and weaving, eating his punches and throwing blows of my own. Can’t hurt me…He knows he cant hurt me baby! So he says “I cant hurt him, but I can take everything from him”. Taken everything from me…he tried to. Took my pops when I was younger, then my smile, my career, my money, my friends…and my son. Oh my son…our son…I’m sorry son. Then he took you baby, but you came back. Then my smile came back. He knew he couldn’t take everything from me so he says “I can’t take from him anymore but I can kill him”. He started trying to kill me but I wouldn’t die, just wouldn’t die. Every time he tried, I just came back. Stronger, faster, wiser and better than ever! He couldn’t kill me! But he made me bleed, but I could take it. See baby I’m not human. I’m an animal, I got warrior blood in me, beast blood in me. I’m a lion, aaaaah! When the smoke clears and the rain stops, I’m still gonna be here with my chest out, my chin up, smiling like a peacock…still standing…still strong…still champ. Remember when Ali shocked the world? When he knocked out Liston? That’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna shock the world baby! It may take me 12 rounds, 15 rounds, 1000 rounds of the rest of my life but I’m gonna beat him baby, I’m gonna knock alcohol out. You’re gonna be here right by my side baby. You’re my everything, everything that makes me a champion. You are my strength, my stamina, my heart. With you I’m unstoppable. Without you…I’m a loser. And my fans baby, they’re still here too. They never left my side. Can you hear them? Shhh…listen. They’re chanting my name. ! ! ! ! Heerko !! The announcer is there too baby and ya know what he says? The winner…and still undisputed champion of his life…me.

 

I wonder this myelf.

Which version was better, the man who beat Liston or the man who beat Foreman.

I honestly don't know.

 

Ali, he boxed smarter an behind a solid jab!

 

P4P the man who beat Liston may have been better. With day before weigh ins Clay could make Cruiserweight and not be drained.

Post Exile Ali was a natural HW.

H2H Ali is better than Clay.

 

To prove my point we can look at Pacquiao. His two defining perfoances were Barrera I and Cotto. Which version of Pac wins if they fight each other? I'd say the 145 pound Pac beats 126 pound Pac. Despite the fact that 126 lbs Pacquiao is p4p a better fighter. But 145 pound Pacquiao has more pounds to work with.

Clay may and I say may be p4p a better fighter. But H2H the size of Ali matters.

 

I could imagine clay out boxing Ali fom range though.

 

I'll take Ali.

A bit more mature, a bit harder hitting and imho much tougher. Clay would look good early on but Ali would work him out and accumulate the damage for a late rally and the decision. Nobody is getting KO'd. Would be a great fight to watch.

 

Ali! At the time he entered the peak of his prime his name had already changed to Ali.

If the original question had been changed to 64 Clay vs 74 Ali, then that is debatable.

But the Ali that beat Cleveland Williams beats any version of Clay/Ali and pretty much any heavyweight in history.

 

Ali. Smarter, stronger, more experienced, better punch resistance, more developed intangibles.

Prettier film doesn't equal the better fighter. In the lead up to Liston, Clay was getting dropped by Cooper and dropping rounds to Doug Jones. That doesnt happen to Ali.

 

I'd favor Clay. Clay made mistakes Ali would not make. But I can't see how Ali would be able to hit Clay that much either. Clay is just faster and more elusive.