Who wins, Clay or Ali?

Worse fighters than Ali were landing on Clay. Jones nearly won, and that wasnt long before the Liston fight. Clay got dropped by Cooper with one left hook. Ali took a dozen rounds worth of punishment before Frazier floored him.

The portrayal of Clay already being a master boxer before the championship, dancing and shutting guys out without getting hit for 15 rounds, is a myth.

 

Ali at the time of the Terrell and Williams fights was stronger than the younger Clay and just as fast, I have to take Ali at that time period. The Ali after the suspension had lost a couple of steps and would probably lose to Clay.

 

Ali changed his name from Cassius after Liston 1. He clearly became a better fighter after that so gotta go with Ali here.

 

Clay on points.

 

Clay became Ali the day after he won the title off Liston. It would better to compare pre exile and post exile Ali.

 

The Clay that fought Liston, beats any heavyweight that ever lived !!!!!

 

Clay was the better talent and youth on his side... But Ali had more smarts and mental fortitude. Plus he would know the flaws he had when his younger and exploit them. Ali UD. Experience counts. Clay might be better h2h than Ali, but Ali knew himself better than anyone. Styles make fights

 

It seems like that's what people are already doing, and they're using the exile as the cutoff as opposed to when Clay actually became Ali.

I can't fathom at all how people would pick Clay over Ali otherwise. Clay never went past 10 rounds, and had his growing pains immediately before the Liston fight against inferior fighters than would trouble Ali.

 

Ali before the suspension. He was around 26 or 27 than, was at the peak of his athleticism, speed, reflexes and combination punching ability. He also had a good amount of experience at that point.

Someone mentioned his fight with Cleveland. That was arguably the best version of him. He was something else right before he was forced out of boxing in the 60's.

 

This is exactly what i said earlier, the way people are classifying Clay as faster, more elusive and explosive seems that the original post should have been worded differently.

To judge Clay vs Ali, you would have to compare Clay of 1960-1964 to Ali of 1964-........

Ali of 67 beats Clay and so does Ali of 74 in my opinion. Ali who beat Foreman is just as mythical has Clay who beat Liston. Clay was actually Ali before the Liston fight, just never announced it till after.

 

All I know is Ali before all the draft bullshizz> Anything after.

 

Age + Treachery > Youth + Skill

 

That is a great "mythical matchup".
Clay physically brilliant fast and potent, Ali the more cerebral and crafty get into his opponents head fighter. I would go with Ali by a whisker. I think Ali would get into Clay's head an cause him to be reckless.