WHO WINS JOHN Tate vs donovan razor ruddock???

Ruddock by mid round ko. Tate didn't have the beard to take razors hook. If weaver and berbick could ko him,(and in devastating fashion) I can't see tate surviving for too long.

 

I'd go with the version of Tate that won those fights in Africa to get the W. He'd box the ears off of Ruddock and had the superior workrate of the 2 & I don't think Razor is the type to do particularly well in a 15 round fight either. Hell, he drops his hands by the 2nd round & that's one thing Tate did well and that long long hook of Ruddock is going to have a tough time getting thru clean against a guy that holds those hands up high the whole bout.

 

Ruddock is a difficult fighter to gauge. His best wins were against past prime foes, and his other major accomplishment was extending Tyson the distance. The first time he met a man who had both youth and the size to match him combined, he lost by a wide margin. Tate was a good fighter in his prime during the late 70's, and was regularly beating undefeated fighters. He seemed to have had the complete package with size, conditioning, boxing ability, power, etc. The one thing that makes me hesitate to pick him was his chin, that and his tendency to lose his mental resolve. Not sure who I'd take in this one, but whatever the outcome was, I bet it would probably surprise a lot of fans.

 

If this is the pre-weaver John Tate, he takes a UD over 15 with considerable margin.Post-Weaver John Weaver, forget it, he gets kayoed in five by a confident Razor Ruddock.

 

Tate had little power for a man of his size and would have to fight a perfect fight and not let his guard down for an instant. Razor's smash was a lethal weapon and was one of the most powerful punches ever, Tate wasn't glass chinned but the Weaver fight showed his punch resistance.

The chances of Big John avoiding the smash for 12 rounds are slim, Lewis got Ruddock by knocking him out before he got in trouble, and Tyson wouldn't of got by him if he wasn't so freakishly good at absorbing shots. Tate has no shot of stopping Ruddock and he doesn't have Tyson's chin, I'd pick Ruddock by a 7th round KO, in a come from behind win.

 

Raul Gorosito was a crude-rock chinned Argentine who thrived on absorbing his opponent's shots and attempting to return the favor. He went the distance with Oscar Bonavena, Duane Bobick, Kallie Knoetze and Howard (KO) Smith before John Tate levelled him in 2 rounds. Not to mention taking out the undefeated KO artist Bernardo Mercado and Duane Bobick. So let's not snub our noses at Tate's power. It was there when he wanted it. However, what he thrived at was boxing and counter-punching. His counter-punching job on Knoetze was masterful behind a water tight defense. If you're pinning your hopes on the opponent getting one lick in - like I did when he out boxed Coetzee - you'll be waiting in the losing corner hearing a decision rendered against you. Tate was boxing a masterpiece against Weaver for 14 1/2 rounds. He got caught from a punch that Cuevas caught, that O'Grady caught, that Curry caught. It was a punch that took something out of them and essentially ended their careers. In his prime Tate was something and I have no problem picking him over Ruddock by decision and yes, I could see Tate stop him as well, as he was an outstanding counter-puncher and could time the huge opening when Ruddock threw that left uppercut.

Scartissue

 

Tate. Ruddock ALWAYS had stamina issues because of his asthma, they existed early in his career as well but they appeared less substantial because he opted to box.

 

Just like Mike Weaver, right

I like John Tate, in fact I recently made a thread about him and I think he was a very good fighter that would of given Holmes a good fight. As for the guys he knocked out, Gorosito was durable at one time but he hadn't won in 5 fights and he was 38 years old. Bernardo Mercado was a massive puncher but wasn't known for his beard. Good win for Tate but not one that shows that he has power comparable to many of the guys that landed flush on Ruddock. Bobick couldn't take a punch to save his life, I don't see how him being stopped by Tate shows anything.

Ruddock beats him on styles more than anything, here's why

1. Ruddock lost to Lewis because Lewis was a monster against tall punchers and was on search and destroy mode. He got caught against a top 5 HW and finished, Tate is neither as good as Lennox and most importantly he didn't have Lennox's power. Tate will not win this by walking him down.

2. Against Iron Mike, Ruddock lost because Tyson could stand up to his power. Tate doesn't stand up to a fifth of the punishment that he dished out to Tyson, and that's not even a big slight to Tate, Tyson could take single shots as good as about anyone who ever lived. He was walking through full power shots and not even blinking.

So basically, for Tate to win he's going to have to outbox Razor for the duration and fight a perfect fight. He almost did it against Weaver, but Weaver and Ruddock are very different fighters and Weaver ultimately got him anyway. One shot is all Ruddock needs, I just think the chances of Tate avoiding Ruddock for 12 rounds are less than that of Ruddock landing a shot like he did against Dokes.

 

1. Lewis countered the same lazy jab Ruddock always threw. And
Ruddock brings his hands back low. That's a window of opportunity he always left open defensively.

@. He lost for various reasons. One of which was he doesn't throw combos and it's all a single shot with the guy. He really didn't land all that much on Tyson and he hung in there and threw about 25 punches a round and took about 2 minutes off a round because he didn't have the gastank to fight otherwise. And Tyson comes to him & Ruddock does not have to deal with chasing a guy down.

Tate held his hands high. He brought them back high. Ruddock telegraphs everything he is going to do. And that smash of his is thrown from way on the outside, after he dips and plants his feet.

What early Tate did in S. Africa was to box and move. Combos while moving his feet. Ruddock has to plant his feet to do anything and would get turned all night. And hit. Tate would circle away from the left hand of Razor and it'd be up to Ruddock to cut the ring off and just when did he ever show that kind of work ethic? He just kind moseyed after guys. Ruddock would have to chase after Tate who had a superior workrate and conditioning edge and was a very accurate guy in there.

Ruddock is always going to do best against guys that stand right in front of him & the Ruddock defense hardly shines against accurate fighters. Couple that with the fact he liked to work about 25 seconds a round. A tall boxer type like a Tate or early Holmes are not the matches that suit the Ruddock toolset very well.

 

Exactly! A mythos surrounded Ruddock after the Tyson fights, as that style was perfect for Razor to look good with. In actuality, he was no monster, the guy was over-rated. A big left uppercut, that's all. A punch that a Tate would have timed to perfection but a punch that a Tyson would always make a meal out of due to styles. Not to be too hard on Razor, he could have been much better. I remember watching his fight with Mike Weaver and saw a future for him. I thought he was a nice boxer when he was trained by Chuvalo. But for whatever happened, he ditched Chuvalo and his boxing style, perhaps when he discovered his one big punch, and his flaws became apparent. He did not have much defense, heart, chin and as you stated, he was lazy. but he could have been better. Perhaps Chuvalo was a taskmaster. As it was, the finished product is a counter-puncher's dream. Lewis and Morrison proved that. And Tate would have been no different.

Scartissue

 

Tate was a good fighter who got ruined in the 15th rd by Mike Weaver in a fight Tate was dominating...He never regained the confidence from that KO and I saw him get devastaed by Teofilo Stevenson in the amatuer but bounce back in the pro's....I think the Tate that beat Coetzee and KNOTZEE would beat Rudduck but Razor had that beautifull ko over Dokes and could not be counted out for the KO....

 

Ruddock didn't land that much on Tyson!?!? Man, if he landed one of the dozen or so Smash's on Tate that he landed on Tyson, Tate is out of there.

I'm not making the argument that Ruddock has the workrate, skill etc. to outpoint Tate or be close on the scorecards. But with Tate's suspect chin the chances of him avoiding Ruddock for the entire fight when he is NOT a puncher to blast him out early is super slim. Also, if Ruddock has to chase Tate down, the fight is over. Tate COULDN'T fight on the backfoot, watch the 15th round against Weaver, it's like he never trained it in his life.

 

The part of Ruddock lacking heart and chin is utter nonsense. Also, bringing up the Morrison fight in which Ruddock was a shell of his former self is also nonsense, especially considering that Morrison had ATG power unlike Big John which was crucial.

 

Wow, your thoughts mirror mine. In fact, here's an abbreviated excerpt from my notes on the Weaver-Tate bout:

"John Tate- has good forward movement... clueless on the backfoot... below average power for his height & weight"

Now, I don't want to make a decision about Tate-Ruddock since I haven't seen the fights the posters pulling for Tate indicated, but I must say that judging from the Weaver fight alone, your assessment looks sound.