Who wins my fantasy heavyweight super series?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Dodgy Syrup, Jul 2, 2021.

Who wins through to be crowned champion?

  1. Ali

    34 vote(s)
    23.6%
  2. Foreman

    7 vote(s)
    4.9%
  3. Frazier

    1 vote(s)
    0.7%
  4. Tyson

    9 vote(s)
    6.3%
  5. Lewis

    59 vote(s)
    41.0%
  6. Holyfield

    6 vote(s)
    4.2%
  7. Klitchko

    10 vote(s)
    6.9%
  8. Fury

    18 vote(s)
    12.5%
  1. Dodgy Syrup

    Dodgy Syrup Active Member banned Full Member

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    You can't pick when a loss counts and when it doesn't.

    Over his career Ali lost fights, should we discount him because of it?

    Mike Tyson lost fights, does that weaken the claim that in his prime he was one of the best ever?

    Ultimately, heavyweight boxing is like that.

    They all lose at some point...except Marciano.

    Rahman was good enough on the day, and that's it.

    Had he gone on to create a legacy then we would realise it wasn't a fluke, a one off.
    But, because he never really fulfilled that potential people are more likely to give Lewis the benefit of the doubt and assume he had an off day.
    Remember, Lewis two defeats (Rahman and McCall) were against guys he was expected to beat relatively easily.

    It could be he simply got complacent and overlooked them.
     
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  2. fistsof steel

    fistsof steel Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This Prime Foreman would give Lewis Problems....Can not believe it also.
     
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  3. Olu G. Rotimi

    Olu G. Rotimi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali would win obviously because of speed, speed and even more speed. He had the skills to pay the bills as well as the best chin ever. You really need to include Big Larry Holmes as he could and would likely defeat eveyone peak for peak except Ali.
     
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  4. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hard to say. My front runners would be Ali, Lewis and Klitschko.

    A LOT hinges on stylistic matchups and I can see some guys that would be favoured over others losing to a third fighter who the guy they beat would beat. I can see a guy like Fury being a right pain in the ass for the boxer types on here (like Ali). On the other hand a dude that isn't scared to throw down like Foreman, might well give Fury a hard time, whereas we all know he lost to Ali IRL. I think Frazier, who was a hard matchup for Ali, might struggle against rangey boxers with power like Lewis and Klitschko etc etc.

    I pick those three as having the best chance against a wide variety of opponents. So if it is a round robin event take your pick.
     
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  5. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    May 6, 2021
    Lewis is a H2H nightmare for basically anyone, I'd fancy him strongly here.

    I don't know why you're even mentioning Wilder anywhere near this conversation, he's levels upon levels away from the guys on this list.
     
  6. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

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    I thought you said this tournament was for the fighters at their best.That means in their prime so Ali was never beaten in his prime Lewis was simple as that.Its not picking and choosing its a fact
     
  7. Dodgy Syrup

    Dodgy Syrup Active Member banned Full Member

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    Fair point.

    I was going to add Holmes, and I did mention him as one of those I left out.

    I just felt it was him or Frazier and Joe is just more my kind of fighter and I was intrigued how people thought he might get on against some of the smaller guys like Mike Tyson or Holyfield.
     
  8. Dodgy Syrup

    Dodgy Syrup Active Member banned Full Member

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    I think I merely mentioned him in the context of smaller guys.

    I absolutely wouldn't put him anywhere near this list.

    But, you have to conceed some people, Wilder included, actually think he's an ATG and his (padded by bums) k.o record is at least impressive on the surface.
     
  9. Dodgy Syrup

    Dodgy Syrup Active Member banned Full Member

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    I'm not sure what you are driving at.

    You said Lewis lost to Rahman and implied that meant he wasn't fit to be on the list.

    I replied that just because a fighter loses, especially in the heavyweight division, doesn't mean they aren't great.
    All of the ATG heavyweights, with the exception of Marciano, lost fights.

    You want to suggest Ali didn’t really lose because he wasn't in his prime, as if that is relevant to a man's lengthy career.

    I don't know, perhaps I've misunderstood your point.

    Ultimately, yes, we are assuming that it is the best version of each fighter.
    That just means when they were at their most dangerous, motivated, physically robust etc...
    It's entirely debatable when exactly that is for certain fighters.

    For instance, would you say the Ali who beat Liston (both times if you like) was a better version of the man than the Ali who beat Foreman?

    They were separated by about 10 years, but is that important?

    Experience can overcome youth.

    Was he a more sophisticated, skilful operator when he faced Foreman?
    I'm not saying he was, or wasn't, I'm just posing a question.

    It's certainly up for debate which is the best version of a fighter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  10. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    And there are some people, Jake Paul included, who think Jake Paul is actually a real boxer.

    We have words for such people... "Casual" is the polite one, "idiot" or "deluded" are often more accurate.
     
  11. Dodgy Syrup

    Dodgy Syrup Active Member banned Full Member

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    Jake Paul is only fooling the 12 year olds who worship him.

    Grown ups see him for the fraud he is.

    However, as much I have zero time for Wilder, let's not go overboard and suggest he is anything like Jake Paul.

    We need to be rational.
     
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  12. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 Full Member

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    Ali was only 216 and Foreman 220 in that match... Only 4 pounds difference. 1 inch in height 0 inch in reach...
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  13. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

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    The Ali that beat Liston was for sure a better fighter
    My point is Ali was a completely different fighter before his enforced exile.He was a magnificent specimen in his youth and would have been too quick for Lewis and boxed rings around him
     
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  14. BubblesUK

    BubblesUK Active Member Full Member

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    Nono, I'm not saying Wilder is anything like Jake Paul in boxing terms.

    I'm saying that the idea of Wilder as an ATG is not far off being as ridiculous as the idea that Paul is a legit boxer rather than a sideshow for kids.

    Nobody serious has Wilder within a million miles of ATG just as nobody serious has Jake within a million miles of proper professional boxers.

    I was being hyperbolic for effect, but nonetheless I'm not sure I could take someone who consider Wilder an ATG seriously.
     
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  15. Jennifer Love Hewitt

    Jennifer Love Hewitt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just tournament bracket.
    Ali beats Foreman to move forward. Tyson Beats Fraizer to move Forward. Ali Beats Tyson to move on to the Final. Lewis beats Holyfield, Fury beats Klitschko. Lewis beats Fury to move into the final. Lennox Lewis wins the final.