Who won Ali-Shavers?

Fair enough. :good

 

True.
And I think Earnie Shavers' quote saying Ali deserved the decision was something he said in recent years too. :good

 

There would have been a rematch in all of these cases (and should have been in reality, as well). Ali had room for improvement against both Young (very much so) and Shavers, but not Norton. Against Norton he gave what he had left at that stage and it wouldn't have been more for a rematch. Perhaps Kenny would relax enough for Ali to sneak a decision, though.

 

Agree on all points.

 

Brutal fight. Shavers fought out of his skin while Ali was well on the downward slope at this point in time.

I call it 9 - 6 for Ali.

 

For Ali's 'controversial' close ones,I have -

Doug Jones - Ali by two or three rounds

Ken Norton II - Ali by one round

Jimmy Young - Draw (So messy,it's hard to call some rounds)

Ken Norton III - Norton by three rounds

Earnie Shavers - Ali by three rounds


The Shavers 'controversy' is definitely revisionism gone mad. I recall it very well and the consensus at the time was that although Ali had deteriorated signifigantly since regaining the title against George Foreman three years previously,and Earnie pushed him all the way,there was never any thought that Shavers actually won it.

 

The reason there was no controversy at the time was because of the open scoring. The announcers and judges were saying that Ali was winning, as he took bomb after bomb to the head, and so the public just accepted that as truth. People love heroes and don't want to see the mighty Casey strike out, and they will buy what you tell them to buy. Immediately after the fight Shavers said that he won. It wasn't until years later that he said Ali won and that is because like many of the others, he looked up to Ali who was an idol to his race and to people in general everywhere (not to me), and Earnie just decided to join the pack and kow-tow to the appointed God. Ali was the Johnny Depp, the Radiohead of boxing, the one who can do no wrong even when he put out obvious ****. It serves some sort of societal function that we could probably write a research paper on. I for one know bull**** favoritism when I see it, and I don't like it. Not one bit.

 

But not one scribe,at the time,thought anything iffy about the scoring - Open or not.

Even though I've always been a massive Ali fan,I can still look upon his fights in a fair way. The only dodgy decisions Muhammad had,in my mind,were the Jimmy Young and Ken Norton III fights. And,as Bokaj pointed out,Ali was n't the first or last to be lucky on the judges cards.