Who won Pacquiao vs Marquez?

Thats what it appeared too be watching it live at the MGM from a $1200 seat juxtaposed with the massive Mex crown in attendance who roared at every shot thrown by JMM. As i said in an earlier post i thought JMM won it but once viewed from the luxury of my armchair i could'nt believe how many of those JMM punches missed & when he did miss pac smacked him in the chops aplenty:yep I disagreed with only one round with Leaderman & had it 115/113 for pac, but a draw would also not have me howling the house down:smoke

 

The cleanest punches of the fight were landed by JMM-that is not debatable-Pac was getting beat on in many rounds-not just beat but beat up!

 

fukin idiot-not about *****s or *******s-I can be a "*****" to you, but my points are still made and valid-

you still dont rebuttal with anything more than insults so therefore I owned ya-

u gotta come up with more than this rebuttal to win the debate bro-till then you losing like 14-0 but keep trying:deal

 

You what?? debate with the likes of ye!! I'am English & yooz ai'nt!! So in the natural worlds order of things you do what i ****in well tell yer so shut-it you mug as what you DON'T KNOW about boxing could fill a booklol:

 

What the hell are you talking about? No one has ever claimed Pacquiao did'nt land anything.
You compare the effectiveness of each fighters clean connects and in comparison Pacquiao landed very little of what is called effective connects.
You're pretty much saying it and agreeing with it yourself, but then want to grasp at the slo-mo aspect of it admitting you could'nt see anything effective being landed by Pacquiao in real time.
You pretty much take any connect that really isnt much effective, watch it on slomo, and see the other fighter make a face when he's connected upon.
Watch the same punch in real time, and you see that the fighter in the recieving end of tha punch did'nt much as acknowleadge it as a connect.

Fighters get hit all the time. When you judge a fight you have to judge what was clean and effective and what was not.

Thats guaged in real time, not on slomo. You have'nt been watching boxing very much if you cant sense and read when a fighters landed a clean, hard, effective shot.
How could I tell that Pacquiao's shots were mostly ineffective?
The way Marquez handled them. Never flinching and never shying away from the prospect of getting out his own combinations with "power"

When you have a fighter planting his feet and unleaching with torque and power. Thats pretty much a fighter who's not afraid of whats comeing at him on the recieving end.

Flip the coin and ask yourself that of Pacquiao. Was he not hesitant to plant his feet to unleach with torque and power???
He most certainly was afraid. He was constantly getting hammered hard on the counter and it showed in the way he became just content to flick arm punches in the form to guage Marquez' target.
Punches with torque and leverage behind them? Pacquiao landed almost nothing. The few times he attempted to land clean and hard, he was being driven back by Marquez' hard connect counters.

Thats the aim of the counterpuncher. Marquez is taking a step back everytime Pacquiao sets to punch, the purpose of it to throw Pacquiao out of rhythm. It worked like a charm. Pacquiao was left reaching and Marquez opened up the avenue for which to land hard with counters.

Whether a punch landed or missed, Marquez was always half stepping and lateralling and giving himself room to land the counter.
To somehow allude that Pacquiao was being effective because Marquez was half stepping to find himself room is ridiculous and goes to show how little you know about the nuances and intracacies of the sport.

Of course he was. One torqueless ineffective arm punch and away he went. To do otherwise and Pacquiao was being bombarded by the clean torque filled counter.
That was the fight in a nutshell. After a while, Pacquiao became shy to come at Marquez with any kind of mustard, and even in that mode, Marquez was finding Pacquiao with probing jabs to the midsection and following it up with hard leads to the head.
The fight was one of the most easiest fights to score its laughable that one would try to make a case it was even close on the cards.

 

u dont even know me though and u act like u do-u don't know what I know about boxing-Again, I have probably forgotten more about boxing, then you'll ever know or care to know.

 

Seriously my friend. I call you friend because *******ed or not I consider most of you here my boxing chatting brothers.
But seriously. When you have a fighter like Pacquiao who is forced and relugated to go the arm punching way and he's still having lots of trouble consistently finding Marquez, it goes to show how in control of the action Marquez was.

Of course Marquez missed some to. Every fighter does.
But I'm seeing Pacquiao for the better part of the fight be in armpunch mode, and yet, and take a deep look at this AF.......
Marquez in hard torque counter mode landed at a higher % than did Pacquiao who was in armpunch mode.

Its easier to land at a higher % when you're taking alot off your punches and just guiding them and not letting your hands go.
Even while in this mode, Pacquiao's connect % was lower than Marquez.
That speaks volumes.

 

I watched the fight twice, Pac won both times. Marquez came in with a nice fresh game plan, gave a great effort, but just couldn't get over the hump again. It's impressive that Pac. was still able to win with a superb boxer in Marquez, who instead of going toe to to like fights I & II with Pac, chose to try to exploit Pac. with his best boxing skills and guile. Great fight.

 

Here's the crux of the problem when scoring this fight; there were just too many swing rounds (9-10?). That's one thing everyone can agree on. Now one could say they're the most objective and knowledgeable boxing fan in the history of the sport but let's be honest...that's just bull****. Whether you be an official judge, armchair quarterback, Mexican, Filipino....ESB warrior with 30,000 posts, it don't really matter. Everyone inherently clings to their own unique perspective, their own unique set of criteria...their own unique set of biases. You think JMM won? Fine...you prolly gave alot of those swing rounds to JMM. Conversely, someone could've given those same rounds to Pacquiao. So does that make him wrong? Hell ****ing no it doesn't. In short, unless a round was decisive, alotta of the rounds could've been scored in a great number of ways. It was a close fight, simple as that. Yeah it sucks if you're a Marquez fan...all I can really say about that is, maybe next time he shouldn't leave it up to the judges and try to take Manny out. Sometimes it pays to take risks....:good

 

Marquez missed a lot and he lost the fight deal with it!
Watch the damn fight carefully before saying that he clearly won the fight

 

Spot on:yep...MAX REWARDS if yer take the RISK & seize the day:smoke

Obviously the above criteria does not apply to Floyd Mayweather Jr:bart

 

Watched it three times. The first time I had a mucked up scorecard because I was literally thinking about Mayweather/Pacquiao the whole time and how badly I wished that would become the biggest fight of my life.

7-5 JMM
8-4 JMM
8-4 JMM
9-3 JMM

Considering one guy was "P4P king" and the other guy was "7 years older and 2 weight classes smaller," this was an absolute schooling of the sweet science.

 

Just watched again & it's 114/114, last time i had it 115/113 Pacquiao, but a 113/115 JMM is not unfeasable, anything else is most certainly not. JMM was superb as i knew he'd be but err'd a tad on the side of caution which was proberbly un-wise as it lost him rounds he was winning by just not commiting himself to that final push. But in saying that he could well have got himself KO'd if he's pressed the last minute more in the later rounds. Great fight & a real shame JMM came out the loser but the result was fair & if anthing JMM rep has only increased.

 

LOL, yeah the fighter thats commiting to his punches and letting them fly with torque is the one thats being cautious.:nut

 

i voted draw because when i watched it live i had jmm the clear winner, but when i rewatched it the 2nd time a few weeks later, without the expectations i had pre bout, i scored it for pac. too many haters here to give the poll any type of legitimate meaning, other than there are too many people unable to set their hate aside to score a fight. i had it even after the first 8 rounds, the last 4 rds is where i had difficulty deciding a winner.