Who would do better at 168 ... Abraham or Pavlik?

I think Pavlik will ultimately have the opportunity for more success at 168. But, I don't think either fighter will actually match the success they have already achieved at middleweight.

It may only be a difference of two years (and both have had a relatively similar number of fights - though I suspect Pavlik might have had more amateur bouts as well) but Abraham strikes me as a man who is already at his apex. He is fully mature physically. Pavlik isn't as fully developed and mature and so, may have some upside. AA should demand Pavik tomorrow and move immediately to challenge Kessler & Taylor (Bute/Andrade as tuneup if he must). If he isn't ready right now he never will be. If he is gonna beat Kessler he doesn't need any more preparation. He is either able to be the SMW champ or never will be. AA just doesn't seem like a guy who will be boxing more than another three years or so.

If Abraham isn't as successful at SMW, one factor will be his height. He was short for what might be considered optimal at middleweight and it will be even more of an issue against SMWs. Jeff Lacy (who is also listed at 5'10" - though I think he looks a little bit less than that) was also not optimally sized for SMW. Miranda, the same thing. Usually being shorter means you have less reach as well. Getting inside against taller, longer, skilled fighters can be problematic. With the exception of KI, Abraham hasn't had to meet any fighters with size and has been the strongest MW in the ring for a while now.

Taylor will have a substantial reach advantage and is quicker than most (all) of Abraham's opponents. Kessler and Taylor will both be taller and certainly won't be at any weight disadvantage on fight night so AA's power could be (significantly) mitigated. I think Kessler should fight AA immediately - at least as it would be great for the fans (especially in judging the fighter's respective abilities). There can be no excuse for not facing off at this age. It is ironic that so many (Europeans in particular) on ESB tear down Miranda as being crude, unskilled, and beneath contempt when AA's resume is so thin. You take the wins over Miranda off his CV and it is a pretty weak resume for such a lauded champion. He didn't exactly dominate Eastman and the majority of his defenses were against bums or at least rather mediocre talents (generously attributed).

Pavlik is 6'2-6'3". He definitely has to move up soon. Making 160 with his frame isn't going to remain possible for much longer. His length & reach provides leverage and his power should improve as he grows comfortable. He will have a fair number of fights at 168. He should be competitive at SMW. Real hard to imagine the division remaining so depleted that he will be dominant as he will not be quicker than at 160 and won't have the (somewhat unique) size advantage to the extent he has currently. He also needs to get stronger. If he doesn't I don't think he's gonna thrive at 168. Anyone else think that guys with comparatively small heads seem to be more vulnerable? He better do some more upper body, shoulder, and neck work.

We've already seen Taylor/Pavlik twice so we know those fights will be close (especially as Pavlik has the mental confidence of knowing he can win). I thought Taylor made adjustments and the second fight was up for grabs.

Kessler/Pavlik is a tough one to call. It is too bad there aren't some hi-tech monitors/sensors that can measure the speed of fighters in various aspects so we could know more clearly who actually has the better hand and foot speed (when they haven't fought). The both appear to do different things slightly better than the other. I'm not convinced there is a huge measure of difference all things considered. The only point at the moment is that Kessler has been a fairly large SMW while Pavlik isn't quite settled yet. OTOH, the way Kessler is going (and I think he has already peaked) he will get Pavlik two or three years from now and that should be enough to make it very, very close.

 

Bute/Andrade as a tune-up? Admit it, you've never watched either fight, ever, right? Thanks for playing, though! It's nice to write posts on a forum, isn't it?:yep

 

You've been partial to Canadians/Romanians/Europeans
since you've been posting. You don't need to get insulted and feel compelled to defend their honor. lmao

Abraham isn't gonna change his stripes and learn some new methods just because he moves up to '68. Although he has had a calculated and often soft schedule he has been in some real fights. I think the MW champ is more than ready to face off with Andrade or Bute (especially as Andrade doesn't offer a great measure of skill and Bute has a huge question mark right next to his CHIN).

What is it with you European-oriented dudes on ESB? You like having your so-called elite fighters meeting up with relative scrubs and nobodies? If you like boxing and enjoy watching real competition, then you should want the best to meet the best without delay. You don't need to give a **** about what is best for the fighter's financial career or his promotors. They've got that covered.

Don't be a dumbass.

But, thanks for playing, though! It's lame to want to be an internet personage and write thousands of posts on a boxing forum. It is understandable to want to have the best meet the best. Then we don't have to wonder about who's great (or listen to the bleating of sheep-like nuthuggers for their favorite fighters) just because some are protected and/or only have a meaningful fight once every few years.

 

You've been here since September and you know all about me already, do you? When was I partial to Romanians/Canadians/Brits/continental Europeans?:hey

You're talking out of your arse buddy...and you know it!:yep

:hi:

 

Shut the **** up .. don't waste my time. If you don't like the post, shove it up your ass and then you won't have to worry about it.

 

Ludicrious post,mate!

AA has knocked out 23 of his 28 opponents.German hometown advantage,eh! "He wont win rounds trhowing so few punches elsewhere"
Damn! What the hell are you talking about??atsch
He knocks the **** out of his foes.
And there is no doubt at all who was the rightful victor in his fights with Shannon Taylor or Kofi Jantuah.
AA usuallly loses some rounds due to his amazing inactivity within the first few rounds-even against very modest and limited opposition.Thats the way he fights.As long as he keeps winning his fights.......... .

As for Andrade he is tailor made for AA. A very one-dimensional,slow,and predictable fighter.I dont think that he will pose a serious threat to AA.
He has always had problems with mobile and slick targets like Ian Gainer.
Someone like Vitaly Tsypko may have the right style to outpoint AA.Andrade? No way!

 

No way in hell he gets "schooled"! I hope we see those fights sooner or later. I don't say he wins against both guys, but the chance is there...

 

if i am the two, i would rather stay at 160 at wait for cotto and margarito to move up..

 

Pavlik looked fleshy at SMW.

Abraham looked comfortable at Super-Middle....in fact he looked better.

Kessler-Abraham is the one fight I'd pick over Pavlik-Abraham.

 

Abraham.

 

We know you over rate Bute some what.

 

Yeah. Kessler is lighting up the boxing world with his match ups after all......:rofl

 

Ask him about the front page article he wrote shortly after Pavlik won his title. Something like "When will Pavlik STEP UP to Butte?" Nope. No bias here, nothing to see, move along....

 

Abraham looks the bigger built of the two,i dont think he would have too many problems moving up to 168.I think Pavlick should stay at middle weight.

 

Do you! Do you really! Then show me one of my posts when I do that, please!:blurp