Popped up in my head. Would have been a great fight IMO if it happened. Joyce is more proven here but style-wise I think Ortiz like Zhang would have been very tricky for Joyce. Both Ortiz and Zhang share a lot of similarities, both are quite technical and very powerful southpaws who really knows their timing and counters well. Plus they both had their career highs at quite an old age for a boxer. Who would have won this between Joyce and Ortiz?
Ortiz the better boxer but Joyce might have been too big and too relentless for him. It's a wash in my mind.
Abel Sanchez, who was Joyce's trainer at the time, said that Ortiz was a bad stylistic matchup for Joyce and this was after Ortiz had been KO'd by Wilder. Joyce's career being derailed by another aged skilled southpaw counter puncher is unsurprising in light of this. https://www.boxingnews24.com/2019/02/abel-sanchez-rejected-luis-ortiz-for-joe-joyce/
Go watch Ortiz vs Christina Hammer. Hammer was lighting him up with right hands all night because Ortiz's head is a magnet for them. He might be more skilled than Big Joe but the later has a much better chin and his slow-fast speed would completely negate that skill advantage and Big Joe can crack when he sits down on his power and obviously his limitless stamina and work rate would sap Ortiz's gas tanks like no other could
Its a very interesting matchup, theres things that Ortiz brings that would trouble Joe, and things Joe brings that would trouble Ortiz. Ultimately I favor Ortiz here. Ortiz UD.
I've not seen any evidence Ortiz was a big enough puncher to knock out an uncracked Joyce - he had some power, but it can't have been mega or he'd have actually stopped Wilder. Joyce was a lot more willing to take hard fights and a lot more proven. Both were overhyped, but Joyce showed a lot more - hard to pick against him, here.
Joyce is more proven and I could see him gassing out Ortiz with his work rate, if he can avoid walking into a bomb early on. But stylistically I think this is a tough fight for Joyce. Ortiz is like Zhang, a southpaw counter puncher with legit power. So Joyce might again walk into a counter and get slept. But does Ortiz hit as hard as Zhang, was he even as good as Zhang? I'm leaning towards Ortiz because of styles and when the fight was actually talked about it was Joyce's trainer who said Joyce wasn't ready and probably suspected it was a bad style for Joyce. But I wouldn't right Joyce off, Ortiz is far less proven in the pros than Joyce or Zhang and even as an amateur never reached anywhere near the level of Joyce or Zhang so he might very well be a level below Joyce or Zhang and get clobbered.
Does anyone ever stop and think about why it's usually overhyped and underproven fighters that these kind of fantasy threads get made about? There's loads of these Ortiz Vs xyz threads around at the moment - the only reason it generates debate is because there's such a gaping chasm between how much he really proved and how hyped he was. With a known quantity, it's much easier to guage what they could or couldn't have done... But what threads like this are about is encouraging people to guess where an underproven fighters ceiling might have been - I don't like giving credit for things people didn't prove, especially when they had bigger opportunities and chose not to take them (as Ortiz did when he ducked Joshua, for starters).
