Who would win an ATG "Super Six" at 160lbs?

Perhaps because their contemporaries were of a much higher standard than Jones's at 160?

 

None of the other men have a name of the quality of Hopkins or Toney. Now the Toney fight was at 168, but that was only a few months after roy fought at 160, he was essentially the same fighter

Jones was dominant against everyone until the age of 35, barely losing a round, the other men werent nearly as dominant

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQIx3Thz9Fc&feature=related[/ame]

 

I'd go for Hagler.

 

Monzon gets stacks of love on here so I thought I'd be radical and just state my position openly rather than *****-footing around - just to let you know my opinion doesn't reflect the consensus.

There is plenty of footage of Monzon; the limiting factor in my assessment of him is not the footage but his ability, quite simply. I think he was basically a big, strong guy with a solid jab-right in an era of small men who mostly plodded on to that combination. He was smart, he knew how to get out of the way of an advancing opponent and had enough firepower to prevent people walking through him. Where he didn't have that advanatage, he got by essentially on power punching/bullying his opponents on the inside where they had little game in that department.

Attributes-wise, Monzon is nothing special. He was not particularly fast. He had decent but not show-stopping power, and often needed to be handed the KO on a plate to realize it. His gob was solid but over-rated; he was rattled by both of the biggest punchers he faced. I know ESB Classic heads love to masturbate over how he got up in the second round against Valdez II (as opposed to giving up at that point?), but it's not like he faced an amazing amount of adversity in his career compared to Hagler, Robinson, even Hopkins.

He also has an abundance of technical flaws which seem to get dismissed on here ("Monzon wasn't pretty but he was effective"), and sometimes ignored outright ("Monzon was the best technical fighter OAT"). You can get away with leaning back as a means of defence/wearing your guard on your chest/going wild on the inside against some opponents, but the Greats would have a field day. Hopkins would certainly take advantage of these issues, and would have a field day countering Monzon's jab and right hand, exploiting his vulnerability to the straight right and working him over on the inside where Monzon's sloppy digs to the belly would get him countered into oblivion. This one would be an uglier version of Hopkins/Pavlik.

Against Robinson, I am confident Monzon would be clearly outboxed or stopped if he tries too hard. Robinson is the superior ring general (an intangible which is traditionally the last refuge of a Monzon nuthugger), would boss every exchange with more advanced offence and better footwork and also has the edges in speed, power and size to keep Monzon in check in case he tries anything.

Jones had not reached his peak at 160 by any means, although he definitely had the raw gifts and natural boxing brain of an ATG. He'd basically be too fast for Monzon. It doesn't sound particularly clever, but that's the bottom line. Monzon wouldn't make contact and his porous defence would be eating leather for as long as he stands in there. If Jones can avoid getting mangled in the clinches he'd win a clear decision, possibly dropping the odd round late on. A stoppage isn't even out of the question, especially with Monzon's leaky defence and power like this

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vvCgd90c58[/ame]

 

This is a well thought through post.

I've always maintained that Hopkins has a fine chance of beating Monzon, not because of any shortcomings i've perceived in Monzon's make-up, but because it's a boxing match, and Hopkins is a master in those scenarios. Monzon is good at standing off his man though, which can be a problem for boxers, but Hopkins is a master boxer who would likely devise a plan there.

I've always thought Monzon has a great chance against Jones though, but a lesser one against Robinson. I hear you loud and clear about his smaller opponents, but i have to rate his effectiveness, it's there for me to see, i can't speculate on that.

You pout your argument forth well there mate.

 

Thanks T, I was expecting a bit of backlash really after all that Monzon-bashing.

All that said, I still think he has a good chance against Hagler actually, purely based on styles, though I think Hagler is the better fighter overall and could beat any of the others on his night.

 

An interesting fight would be Monzon vs. Lamotta IMO. Lamotta is another smaller guy, but a better, cleverer, sharper smaller guy than Monzon ever faced. He'd be as relentless as Briscoe and much better defensively and would be sure to break up Monzon's rhythm and get his own shots in.

 

HOpkins is a master in a boxing match scenario when he's fighting guys with no finesse or much inferior fundamentals that he can matador.That's his thing, especially recently.

We never really saw him in a chessmatch against other good technical boxer-punchers much at all, most of the good fighters he fought were not cuties by nature, or even particularly skilled craftsmen.I think he would have coped ok but Monzon is a lot more proven in that area.HTe fight with much smaller DLH was arguably Hops toughest two-way fight technically...not exactly a McCallum or Benvenuti there.

 

Yeah, i'm the same on the Monzon-Hagler fight, i actually think that would end up a classic and it's very probable Monzon takes that. As i say though, i've got Hagler overall here, and beating Robinson if i'm picking anyone to do so. I've always specualted over a dramatic and glorious stoppage win for Robinson over Monzon, i can see it happening in my head. (I feel a bit blasphemous saying it though, but i doubt you do, haha!).

I'd be picking Monzon over Jones though, and i don't mind if that is seen as controversial. I'd rather it was taken that way actually, rather than me coming across as a nostalgic type Monzon fan. I'd proba ly pick Robinson over Hopkins as well. Hopkins would realise in that one that he has to exert much pressure and i don;t know how late that would be and if it would be enough in volume or even effectiveness to be honest.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD3Xoweqhcc[/ame]






a good companion piece.Wouldn't think this guy had even stepped in a ring before.

 

This holds water. We can only speculate, it ultimately depends on how highly one rates Hopkins on ablity. On the flipside there are points that have been made already that give him a chance against some of the men he has been picked to beat.

 

Definitely, true on all counts. I'm taking Monzon when faced in a one fight scenarion such as this though.