Think Wilder's only chance is that he catches Frazier coming in early and walks him on to something big from which he can't recover inside the first two or three rounds - basically do what Bonavena nearly managed. Frazier was vulnerable early if he needed a few rounds to really get his bobbing and weaving going and if he hadn't yet had his mandible woken up by a few stiff (but not devastating) shots. If Wilder can't catch him cold then he's in a world of trouble. Frazier at his best is underrated technically - this is the guy who made Ali miss more than anyone in their first fight. Wilder is so wide and looping with his shots I think Frazier would have a field day working his way in close. Wilder is also pretty upright and long in the body, presenting a big target for Frazier's body hooks. I don't think Frazier could chop Wilder down completely and put him down for a ten count, but I could see him making Wilder breakdance all over the place by rounds eight or nine and the referee having to step in. Wilder by puncher's chance every now and then, but far more often than not I think Frazier's speed, skilful pressuring and body attack is too much for the Bronze Bomber. Wilder might appear 'too big' for Frazier, but I think it's far more likely that Frazier is just too good for Wilder.
Thinking about and watching his fights, i agree Baer was very dangerous against tall guys who lack defense. His looping shots, speed, and killer instinct would make him a handful for guys like wilder, Bonecrusher Smith, mariusz wach, etc. The more technically sound defensive shws like Wladmir and lennox would actually be worse opponents (even though they lack chin) due to them being way more cautious and avoiding slug fests. I think wilder vs baer is 55:45 matchup slightly in wilder's favor due to his straighter punches and i think he has a bit more power. One thing is certain: no one would be yawning or going to get drinks. As for wilder vs Frazier? I can break that down: Power: wilder Hand speed: Frazier Foot speed: wilder Chin: Frazier Stamina: Frazier Technique: Frazier Defense: Frazier Head movement: Frazier Timing: Frazier Accuracy: Frazier Cuts/swelling: wilder Killer instinct: wilder Now for anyone who raised an eyebrow when i said frazier had a better chin, i stand by what i said. Frazier got knocked down 6x but got UP 6 times. And he wasnt counted out. That actually proved how tough Frazier was. Lots of guys get badly hurt and you dont realize it because they immediately go into defensive mode, freeze up, clinch and stall, etc. Frazier had too much heart for his own good and wouldn't listen to the signals his body was giving him. You cannot name a single fighter who could get up 6x against Foreman--who i happen to believe is #1 of all time in terms of "clubbing" punching power. As for hand speed, Fraziers crips combinations speak for themselves. He has caught many quick fast footed fighters such as Ali, Ellis, Mathis, etc despite his so called horrible reach. Wilder has gopd hand speed but isnt that blinding kind where you have to rewind the tape. His "speed" is more leverage and acceleration from his long arms looping like crazy and catching people off guard. Im not saying he's slow, just that people arent putting things in context. On paper Frazier seems to have tons of advantages in my break down. But then you have to factor in styles and height/reach. Frazier does. Not. Stop. Ever. Unless you land a huge bomb he will keep coming forward and you better hope he doesnt get up. He will be in your chest, digging at the body, leaning, trading, and working at an insanely high pace. You WILL get tired. Wilder on the other hand does. Not. Stop. Throwing. Bombs. He missed horribly against Fury and swung for the fences all night against Szpilka until he landed that hook to the jaw late. So we have a severe clash of styles and a drastic difference in body types. We saw Wilder out of breath and badly hurt against fury and Ortiz. He has a decent chin but he's not hard to hit and he has very basic defense (his height and athleticism/footwork is what saves him usually). Wilder struggles with people who stick to a game plan and can tire him out. His style is not suited for going the distance. Frazier's is the opposite: if the knockout comes, it comes. If not, he will fight every minute of every round as if he's in a phone booth. He was very hard to outbox. My take is that both guys would be lumped up and extremely worn out by the 8th. Difference is, Frazier has another gas tank and, barely seeing out of one eye and having been down 3x, he presses into wilder's chest and continued banging away. By this point Wilder is completely demoralized at this short pit bull who has taken his best shots and wont stay down. By the 10th, a huge hook upstairs forces wilder down. Now the scorecards are even when before Wilder enjoyed a slight lead due to his jab and bombing away early. By the 11th, frazier is examined for his swelling but allowed to continue since his corner's ice and compress kept it down but he is warned if he takes too many unanswered shots it will be stopped. Even Frazier is tired now and both men are only throwing once every 15-20 seconds. Wilder at the end of the round takes a step back and times frazier with the same 1-2 he used on brezeale. Frazier is down, on shakey legs and barely gets up. Wilder goes for the killer but his energy is spent and his shots have no speed or coordination and frazier weaves. Round ends. Round 12 a slightly refreshed Frazier uses the last of his smoke to tear away at wilder's body like vultures on a carcass. Wilder pushes and ties up but to no avail. He brings his guard down and his cracked hard by a double left hook. He brings his guard up and frazier goes downstairs again. Wincing in pain, wilder willingly takes a knee. He has lost the Round...or does he? He has one last bomb left, the man known for being dangerous for every minute of every round baits frazier with his pawing jab to fet him to weave and sets up a lethal right hook, the same one that put szpilka in a coma. But you never trade hooks with a hook specialist. They trade and wilder's sloppy wide hook is interrupted by frazier's crisp piston hook and wilder goes down like a bag of bricks. SOMEHOW, Wilder gets to his feet but all it means is that he gets battered against the ropes until the bell rings. Frazier wins by a razor thin split decision.
Frazier got knocked down six times in ONE fight. He was also knocked down twice in the Foreman rematch. He was also knocked down two times against Bonavena. He was also dropped by Mike Bruce. Frazier was dropped 11 times in 37 fights. And he looked to be going down a 12th time in the second round of the Ali rematch, but Tony Perez jumped in between the fighters when Frazier was badly staggered ... Perez saying later he thought he heard the bell. Wilder was down once, against Sconiers. But it was like Frazier and Bruce. Frazier and Wilder were both down once, then they both knocked down their opponents four times and stopped them. But it's not the CHIN that's odd, it's you saying Frazier had a better defense. Frazier literally would take multiple punches to deliver his own. Wilder doesn't get hit much because he controls the distance in most fights. If you can hit your opponent and he can't hit you, that's good defense. Getting pummeled on your way in isn't good defense. It's a necessity.
You do realize by saying frazier had worse defense/got hit more and yet he was only stopped 2x (by the same guy, who is possibly the hardest puncher ever, once when he was washed up and literally half blind the other time he was on his feet) and faced better competition you are making a stronger case for Frazier having a better chin?
No. I'm making a case for Wilder having a better defense. I was just pointing out Frazier was down more than six times. It was 11 times. i don't know if Wilder could get hit 10,000 times in the head like Frazier and keep getting up, because Wilder doesn't get hit in the head 10,000 times. Frazier got hit ALOT by practically everybody. He didn't have a better defense than Wilder. It's one reason why Frazier didn't fight as much as most of his contemporaries.
Sorry if I came off offensive. You said he couldn't take Wilder's punches yet he took Foreman's punches for five rounds before succumbing (lasted longer on his feet than of Foreman's victims in his 1st career) when he was a washed up shell. So I think he could take a couple shots from the less powerful Wilder.
The reason Frazier didn't fight as much as his contemporary was because his style was taxing on his body not because his defense was lacking in any way. Just ask Ali!
I addressed that in my post. Wilder gets away from shots with his height and athleticism. His offense is his defense. Frazier is 5'11 and his bobbing and weaving and cross arm block isnt perfect but at his best he was able to avoid and block a lot of shots on his way in against men who had far superior technique and speed than wilder. Yes he got hit, but he also made guys miss and look clumsy and off balance. Anyway even if i grant you this point, thats still only 3 categories wilder has over frazier in my break down. Admittedly Frazier could be a slow starter and wilder had terrifying power. I dont see wilder winning unless he decks frazier several times early and forces a stoppage, otherwise he gets broken down and is stopped late or drops a decision due to the exhaustion keeping up with fraziers pace.
Yes, Louis could stop old Foreman in 4 rounds. He did terrible things to slower opponents and Foreman's defense isn't perfect. Another thing is that Baer was stopped because he quit, he wasn't as badly hurt as you think.
Holyfield, Vitali, Ali and Holmes are laughable mentions. They were excellent defensively and got rarely hit cleanly, Baer was hit cleanly in almost every fight.
Actually you can apply some of the abstract training principles in the videos to boxing training, so although I like and respect your post that's not entirely true.
