Who would win between Wilder and Frazier?

Excellent point, but sometimes slim fighters are devastating punchers, particularly inordinately tall ones. Look at Hearns. Wilder ain't no Hearns, but I'm talking in terms of explosive power. That's why I mentioned Wilder's right hand is more like Shavers', as Earnie's right was a nuclear bomb shot through a catapult as opposed to the inexorable refrigerator George hit you with. Earnie had more hand speed (nowhere near Mike Tyson-level in that regard, of course). Certainly faster than George's...

 

I think he might have been on them, anyway. The 70s were when they were becoming in vogue in bodybuilding, and it's really doubtful boxing trainers didn't have at least a modicum of knowledge about them.

 

Baer's overhand right is one of the best ever, so he's not any worse than Wilder.

 

Baer's overhand right has done horrible things Wilder dreams off....

 

What has he done? Beat an old overrated heart patient? Won the title of a bottom 5 HW champion ever? Drop Tyson Fury?
There's nothing there that either hasn't been done or can't be done.

It's impressive. Not unique but impressive.

This. Excellent point. Let's hope the big fights get made.

What? No. He is a very good athlete, but a better athlete than Klitschko? No. Better athlete than Ali? No. Better than Tyson? No. Better than Lewis? No.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

He is unique in the fact he has all 3 but he's not the best at any of them.

Not to mention his huge lack of fundimental punching skill, footwork and basic defence.

I can name a long list of fighters that Bermaine Stiverne wouldn't go the distance with. I can also name a long list of fighter that would drop Duhaupas and that guys like Molina, Arreola and Spilka wouldn't go 8/9 rounds with.

Just some food for thought.

 

He´s 41 - 0 (40 KOs, 9 title defenses) for gods sake! Some on here are really trying to make an idiot of theirself when talking about this guy.

Bear? Guess he´d go 41-0 (40) today too, like his 64% KO-ratio back then, hm?
Laughable.

 

Let's put this into perspective.
He's actually 41-0-1, and everyone who can score a fight and do basic addition agree he should be 41-1.

These 9 title defences, and his title winning fight have been against

Bermaine Stiverne (aged 36) UD12
Eric Molina (aged 34) KO9
Johann Duhaupas (aged 34) TKO11
Artur Spzilka (aged 26) KO9
Chris Arreola (aged 35) RTD8
Gerald Washington (aged 35) TKO5
Bermaine Stiverne (aged 38) KO1
Luis Ortiz (aged 38) TKO10
Tyson Fury (aged 30) Draw12
Dominic Breazeale (aged 33) KO1

That is an absolutely shocking list. And is not as impressive as Baer beating Carnera, Schmeling, Galento, Schaaf and Levinsky twice.

Against Wilder's opposition? No.
He'd go 41-0 (41).

The idea that Wilder is so far above anyone technically that it's not even comparable is what's laughable.

 

On POINT!

 

Baer is probably the bigger slop merchant, but he wasn't nearly as one dimensional.

In both cases I think the flashes of skill really just highlight how much talent they wasted.

 

Doubtful, strength training really didn't become vogue in boxing until the late 80's and through the past 2 decades. Most old school trainers thought weight training made a fighter stiff-slow. Tree chopping, push -ups, pull-ups, weighted gloves/vest, pulley machines were really about the extent of strength training most trainers would allow their fighters to use, and yet some of the greatest and FUNCTIONAL physics were created from those few excercises. Look at Prime Ali, or Prime Marvin Hagler. Or the Average Marine after Parrish Island.

 

A more gifted athlete than Ali?

 

Wilder's advantage over Baer is his focus and consistency. He wouldn't lose against lesser fighter Baer did. On the other hand, Baer fought better fighters than Wilder early in his career - Wilder didn't fight any serious opponent until around 30th fight.

Other than that, I don't think he's that much better. Baer had amazing chin and was more unpredictable. I wouldn't pick Wilder over Baer at their best to be honest.

 

You might be right, point taken. But you can get plenty of performance enhancement from, say, Dianabol without the need to lift weights. Steroids would make it so you would become stronger in boxing trainer, thus your muscles would still get bigger with or without weights. Not anywhere near a bodybuilder, but still pretty damn stacked, especially if you were born with the genetics to look that way to begin with.

Of course, that doesn't mean the fighters of the 70s were on them, I just know their trainers knew about them (at the least from the popular movie Pumping Iron) and being that we can't retroactively test someone it's a (granted, contentious) possibility.

 

Pumping Iron came out in the late 70's . Most Old school trainers were in their late 50's and above about that time. Very unlikely most would've even heard of that movie. Highly unlikely they would've attempted to emulate anything from a movie like that if they did see it, nothing in that movie relates too the fight game.

 

Fighters of the day also used Overcoming Isometrics, and other strongman style techniques (from Sandow etc) to develop strength.

This can develop crazy CNS strength, and can also develop a high amount of mind - muscle connection (which alot of fighters lack today). It's why Lomachenko is so awesome, he has incredible mind - muscle connection.