At welterweight, in their respective primes. Both had solid reigns with the welterweight crown. Armstrong better P4P, but Ryan has size being class even with middleweighs.
Ooooft. Never seen this one before. Wish that was still the case tbh Impossible to pick, but if these two were heavyweights the site would need to be closed due to a metaphysical dichotomy. Both era bias and size bias in one thread
Ryan was a top middleweight in his day, but I don't think the size difference is as much as some would guess. He was really a welterweight who stepped up to middleweight, and I think he may have started as more of a lightweight, but back then there seems to have been more prestige at higher weights to a much greater extent than now, and everyone seemed to fight at the highest weights they could. Didn't they weigh in in their kit back then too?
There is footage of him sparring with Jeffries in 1899. Ryan was a skilled guy for his time and perhaps the most underrated in his decade. He could box, punch, defend, and move. A pound for pound type of talent. Ryan was the World Middleweight Champion from 1898 to 1907. His record was 84-3-11. ( only 1 KO loss ) The only loss that really impacted his legacy was at the hands of the tricky Kid McCoy who served as a sparring partner. The Kid performed badly un-purpose in sparring, then urged Ryan he needed money. A real fight was made. When they meet in the ring McCoy let loose, catching the overconfident Ryan off guard. The 2nd loss is a DQ, ( Quickly avenged ) the other happened vs a heavyweight when he was 41 years old on points vs Ed Martin. A welter and middleweight champion Ryan actually broke the color barrier defending his middleweight title vs Frank Craig in 1899.
Ryan was fighting at welterweight limit as early as April 1889. He wasn't a lightweight. He found it near impossible to make welterweight limit (142lb) by the time he fought McCoy for the 1st time.
Ryan was very dominant in a strong welterweight era, and he was seen as something of a wrecking machine at that weight. That might just make him a reach too far for Armstrong.
The reason I made this thread IIRC, was that I remember Ryan saying he learned to predict what punch someone was going to throw by looking at their feet, and I suspect that's what Armstrong did.
Tommy had at least a 6 inch reach advantage, at least 6 inches in height, and I can only find Henry weighing up to 148 once, and 145 a handful of times, the rest were 144 and most under 140, Tommy went as high as 202 and never less than 169, so at the least Loughran was 20 pounds or more heavier on avg. if not a lot more, and both ATG's and Tommy a more natural Middleweight and higher fighter, given all that, Armstrong might make if a fight for awhile but eventually tommy takes it over and wins, way too much for Homicide hank to overcome.
