Who would you consider the most overrated heavyweight of all time?

Maybe because Foreman destroyed the guys who gave Ali problems and Ali was getting older and slower. Ali was past his prime and it doesn't matter the manner Foreman iced Norton and Frazier, he still did it. Foreman was the one with all the belts, not Ali. Foreman was the undefeated undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, not Ali

 

I was 16 at the time and thought Ali would win, that belief wasn't shared by most, but not certainly all of my peers. So much weight was given to his annihilation of Norton and Frazier, two boxers who had beat Ali. Foreman contemptuously walked out of the Ali-Norton rematch. He should have watched the whole thing. He might have learned something. I would add there was some talk at the time of the Peralta fight beinfg some kind of template .

 

If you’re in the 70s as a “hardcore” fan with access to all the history of boxing before your time, you could put it together that ABC logic and circular reasoning doesn’t always apply … there was plenty of reasons to think Foreman losses.

 

Respectfully your peers were teenagers, the vast majority of fans just watched what they could on TV. I personally think had the internet existed back then there’d be tons of discussion to see amongst folks like us poking holes in everything like we do now in General… “His Frazier wins compromised… Norton was KO’d by a LHW… Ali might be too experienced.” But because it’s biblical now in culture it’s been elevated beyond what it was.

 

Except Foreman never showed many of the weaknesses you say were exposed before the Ali fight. We saw him destroy the best heavyweight in the world and wipe out Norton. Why wouldn't Foreman be the logical favorite off that available information ? He never gassed against Peralta and that fight went 10 rounds

 

A lot of "smart" people thought Foreman would win:

What former champions picked foreman to beat ali?

Before the legendary “Rumble in the Jungle” in 1974, many boxing experts and former champions believed George Foreman would defeat Muhammad Ali. Among the notable former champions who picked Foreman were:

• Joe Frazier: Despite having lost to Foreman in a brutal two-round knockout the year before, Frazier reportedly favored Foreman to win due to his overwhelming power.
  
  
• Jack Dempsey: The former heavyweight champion was among those who doubted Ali’s ability to withstand Foreman’s strength and aggression.
  
  
• Sonny Liston: Ali had famously defeated Liston a decade earlier, but Liston was skeptical
  

I thought Tunney said George would win:

You're absolutely right—and great catch. Gene Tunney did predict that George Foreman would knock out Muhammad Ali in two rounds before the 1974 fight.

In a rare interview given at age 76, Tunney said:

“Foreman will knock him out in two rounds. Dempsey would have done it in one.”


But the great Ken Norton predicted Ali would win


Yes—Ken Norton was one of the few insiders who predicted Muhammad Ali would beat George Foreman, even when most of the boxing world expected a Foreman knockout.
Despite having lost to Foreman in a devastating second-round KO earlier in 1974, Norton understood Ali’s psychological edge and strategic brilliance. He once said:

“Ali defeated everyone mentally first… With Foreman, he tried to kill him with every shot. Mentally, Ali could not defeat me… but he defeated Foreman before the fight even started.”

Norton had firsthand experience with both fighters—he broke Ali’s jaw in their first bout and went toe-to-toe with Foreman. His unique perspective gave him insight into how Ali’s mind games and

Courtesy of Gemini (A!)

 

He lacked seasoning and showed his meal ticket to the whole world constantly… GF was a get you out of there mugger with less then 150 rounds of experience, said green mugger had never been taken to the deep waters with someone who could really fight, GF had only fought Frazier a small guy slowing down who’d run right at a brick wall for 2nds, 3rds and 4ths as well as Ken Norton a guy known for a lame leg, come forward style and lack of confidence. Ali foresaw GF’s defeat himself and talked about how GF was just a dumb street fighter who’d gas out trying to bash him up and talked about his plan. Chuvalo told Ali GF would gas out, Ali reportedly watched Peralta fight GF… if it was impossible to know why did Ali know? (Reflected on him B-lining straight for the ropes in Rd1) There are smarter men than Ali in boxing, some get it wrong but to say Ali was the only man who could’ve known all this is silly… guys since forever have done the “rope a dope” Ali just made it very famous in a cultural event.

 

But in the end Foreman beat the best heavyweight in the world to the point where the guy that went grueling rounds with Ali thought Foreman would win and George had all the belts, was entering his prime while Ali was past it. It's only hindsight, I'm 100% confident you wouldn't have bet on Ali to win let alone stop Foreman given the circumstances. With all the facts known, Ali was logically the underdog

If Ali also wasn't incredibly durable he'd have been stopped with all the punishment he took, so there is that

 

Sonny died in 1970. How was he asked? How did he answer? So many imponderables

 

The myth Ali took a bunch of ungodly punishment is just that a myth… watch the fight, it was mostly arm punches in the clinch for Foreman, Ali basically picked everything off and did what he said he did on the ropes… later flipped on this story too because he likes to talk and romanticised but his original lines were basically he didn’t hurt me, he didn’t hit hard he was dumb and I pawned him. Logical underdog no doubt but read my original post, If this forum had existed then we’d be poking holes in a lot of things and plenty would be for Ali.

 

Ask Gemini. They also had Rocky opining on it. The other quotes are true as I saw them in other settings. The Tunney quote is wild. In the sattelite telecast of the fight you can see Frazier picking Foreman though he gives Ali a chance in his own inimitable way saying Ali's got two hands.

 

Even I caught that, I try to make it a point not to reply to AI slop for reasons like that. No disrespect intended to @ThatOne but post things yourself…

 

Without AI we can find citations that Sharkey, Dempsey, Braddock, Frazier, Tunney, and Louis all picked George. In fairness athletes aren't always the best at evaluating other athletes, especially their contemporary or historical rivals, because they can't be dispassionate.

 

Myth ? Lol. Foreman landed to the body several times per round and tagged Alis head numerous times. Ali picking off some of the shots and landing his own doesn't prove this wrong. We already did a thread about this. I doubt you'd be picking holes in just Foreman.

You'd probably be bringing up Ali getting walked down by Norton or almost getting knocked out by "the smaller less powerful Cooper, Banks and Frazier" and therfor say "Ali would have to box like he did vs Liston or else Foreman knocks him out"

You wouldn't be expecting any rope a dope, there's no way

 

Quarry was my hero back in his day. He was this tough little white guy who wasn’t afraid of anyone stared down Lyle etc. He had toughness power skills personality he was handsome and humble. He was a star but problem was that Irish skin is thin and cuts easy. Also he was a standup boxer puncher with ability but very short reach and increasingly short height as boxers were getting taller and heavier. That style you need height and reach or you need to be lightening fast like a Roy Jones. Jerry was skilled but did not possess that kind of level of natural talent. Jerry was so popular he out polled Ali in late 60s as most popular boxer. Hence people are nostalgic and overrate him somewhat.