Who would you pick to beat a PRIME Sonny Liston ?

The third man in the ring who screwed up Ali-Liston II in Lewiston would have driven prime Liston nuts. Watch the way Sonny flinches every time Machen unloads an abrupt one handed attack. Even towards the end of round 15, JJW had the power to send shudders through the body of Charles with singular rights and lefts that were audible on television, and he was setting Marciano up for an intended knockout when he got dethroned. His second KD in Louis I was the most damaging blow the Bomber got up from in a winning effort.

Sonny didn't exactly dwarf Jersey Joe in Maine.

Liston wouldn't know what was coming next from JJW, and he'd be too slow to react as needed to all those feints, shifts and directional movement changes from a highly unorthodox opponent with one punch knockout power in both hands.

If Sonny doesn't get dropped and stopped, it might simply be because he stops trying to pull the trigger after all the baits and traps in Jersey's bag of tricks and minefield. He could also take a hellacious shot when he saw it coming, and the most famous photograph of him in action with Marciano was NOT a KD punch. With Liston, he'd see everything coming. Sonny wouldn't have the same advantage, and it's the one which isn't seen which ends the bout.

 

Dude, you're usually a good poster and I respect you but this is completely insane!

 

Yes. He did plenty of times.

He fought approximately 9 fighters who were under 190 pounds.

Henry Cooper put up a better fight than Foreman against Ali, so does he rank higher than him as well?

 

Who?

How many bigger than, say, 220lb?

Don't remember Foreman quitting on his stool with a sore shoulder or getting blown away by a phantom punch.

 

Patterson was a former MW who could have made LHW during his reign as HW Champ. Patterson was down 20 times in his career (more than any other HW Champ).

 

Cleveland Williams, Floyd Patterson, Nino Valdez, etc.

Sorry you don't get to change goal posts when you're wrong.

Changing goal posts again I see. I was comparing Foreman to Henry Cooper, not Liston. Henry Cooper did better against Ali than Foreman did, does he rank higher than him as well?

 

You forgot to mention, how many times did he get up out of those 20?

 

Since when was Patterson a big heavyweight? Valdes and Williams would both be considered small compared to 80s/90s heavies.

No one moved the goalposts. Anything less than 220lb is not a big heavyweight nowadays.

Cooper got stopped in five and six rounds. Apart from the flash knockdown, Ali didn't have much trouble with Cooper. Foreman went eight and clearly gave Ali a much harder fight. Mildenberger and Chuvalo both gave Ali a much tougher fight than Liston did. Do you disagree?

 

Throw in Louis and I am ok with this. Marciano maybe tooundersized to bridge the gap.

 

Flash knockdown my ****! Ali didn't know where he was after Cooper's left hook.

 

Don't wanna be respected as a good poster. Being regarded as completely insane is easier and more fun.
silly:stir:blah:nutcase

 

I never said he was a big heavyweight.

But it's a heavyweight nonetheless. You argued his record was consisted of mostly cruiserweights, when I proved you wrong, instead of admitting your mistake you attempted to change the subject.

The "Flash knockdown"? Really? Ali was saved by the bell, out on his feet and didn't even know where he was.

Is that why in BOTH fights, Cooper was ahead on the scorecards at the time of the stoppages, Ali's corner had to use illegal tactics to win the first fight, Cooper dropped him and had him out on his feet to the point where he didn't know where he was. Whereas against Foreman, Ali was clearly ahead at the time of the stoppage. One judge had it 70-61. Okay fine, Leon Spinks and Trevor Berbick gave Ali tougher fights than Foreman do they rank higher as well?

I disagree.

 

Don't confuse him with logic.

 

The Cooper knockdown was legitimate. Cooper also didnt want to be in the same room with Liston. I don't think Ali gave Mildenberger and Chuvalo the same attention he gave Sonny.