who would you say was to blame for Ali's condition?

Ali himself.

 

This.

He didn't know when to quit.

He shouldn't have blown off Pacheco's advice to quit.

 

Himself , but I believe Dundee and Herbert Muhammad were complicit in it, Pacheco gave each one of them a copy of Ali's last medical and the clear deterioration that was indicated in it and never got a response from any of them.That's when he walked.

 

himself, hes human and theres a price to pay for such damage inflicted.

his ego really - though without it he wouldn't be who he was.

 

I read this somewhere, but cannot for the life of me remember where.

But Ali actually had Parkinsons from a very early age, but the symptoms didn't start showing until later. Had Ali never turned pro he still would have ended up with Parkinsons.

 

Ali would've had Parkinsons regardless if he boxed or not. The boxing made it worse.

He and only he was the captain of his career. He would never blame anyone else for his decisions.

 

I'd say that is as close to the reality of the situation as it gets. Unsavoury behaviour by those 2 to say the least. Fair play to Pacheco for walking.

 

Joe Frazier and Earnie Shavers

 

I wonder what the extent of damage to Ali's brain would have been if Shavers had thrown all caution to the wind and just emptied his ****nal on him in that second round when he shook him with that right? Maybe Earnie would have exhausted himself, and that was what he was trying all night not to do....or just maybe,....

 

I would agree with Red, especially Shavers which came 18 or so months later!

 

Hi Red! I may have told you this but my late friend Mike (knowing Earnie's stamina issues), bet a co-worker $100 that Shavers wouldn't last 15. We watched it together and as Ali was turning it on in the 15th, Mike was running around the room going nuts only to drop his head at the bell, grab another beer, and say: "Dammit!"

 

Ali is to blame...

 

Also, When Ali was asked about whether he regrets being a boxer which lead to his condition his reply was, that had he not been a boxer he would have ended up being a sign painter just like his dad.

 

Yeah jowcol,...that was the prevailing wisdom at the time, that Shavers would gas. I think Earnie was almost paranoid about it, to tell you the truth....which was why he didn't ramp it up after he hurt Ali. A great big "what if" in modern boxing lore IMO.