Who "Wouldn't" Mike Tyson defeat as a Challenger ?

Of that list, only Joe Frazier and George Foreman

 

I feel most confident that he beats Frazier (and Marciano too, obviously). The rest of those matchups are intriguing ones that could play out any number of ways. Most likely loses to the Manny-era Lewis.

 

Pal, you are a smart, terrific poster. Keep up the great work. You just nailed Tyson and heavyweight history. KUDOS

 

Thanks, it really means alot to me, I try to stick to what I know and say what I really think. Feels nice to be validated

 

Ali
Louis
Foreman

I'm really confident about the above three beating him.

The following I think would win, but I'm not too confident about it:

Johnson
Wilder
Dempsey
Holmes
Marciano

Lewis, Fury and Klitschko would be the next closest, but I think Tyson UDs them.

I think he knocks out Frazier, Walcott, Charles, Holyfield, Baer, and yes, even Carnera.
Bowe and AJ get stopped on their feet.

 

Young clay/ali after beating liston:

Clay wins an embarrasing wide ud over challenger tyson. He gets inside his head in the press conference and exposes him for what he is: a talented but emotionally unstable front runner. After beating the big scary bear liston and having the confidence that he really shook up the world, ali would bring his A game and put on a clinic against a guy whose trainer believes in him more than he believes in himself.

Alternate scenario: 70'a ali after winnin the title against foreman.

This ends a a bit different. Ali can only dance in spurts and has taken lots of damage and ring wear from his wars with norton, frazier, etc. Ali assumes he can simply let tyson punch himself out like foreman did, but realizes around round 4 that tysons smaller stature and sharp ambush style is much harder to smother than foremans wild, wide cannonballs. Ali suffers a down in the 5th after tysons relentless body shots followed by a big left hook.

This wakes ali up to reality and changes his strategy. Ali holds for much of the 6th, pushing tyson down, and talking to him. Tyson continues going to the body, realizing alis spirit isnt broken. In the 7th ali stuns the crowd by dancing on his toes. He flicks the jab and confuses mike changing up his pattern. He doesnt do a lot of damage but he wins the round. Tyson comes out in the 8th bobbing and weaving and attempting to cut off the ring, but ali changes things up yet again and plants his feet. He nails tyson with a big right hand lead. A confused tyson gets tagged by flurries and has a hard time following alis rhythm who throws leads and double hooks, then quickly smothers tyson or grabs his neck. This goes on until the the 10th when tyson lands another vicious hook. Alis legs buckle, but he shakes it off and mocks tyson, giving the crowd a laugh. An infuriated but exhausted tyson continues after ali anyway but this is a mistake: although ali was actually hurt, he wasnt mocking tyson to pretend like he wasnt but to get tyson to go after him like a shark smelling blood.

Ali simply covers up and rolls with the punches, occasionally tying tyson up and whispering in his ear. Then he suddenly explodes in the 11th with blindingly fast flurries. Tysons left eye is shut and his face heavily bruised. Instead of going for the kill, ali dances for the rest of the round.

Round 12-13, tyson has absolutely nothing left, breathing heavy and plodding forward. But tyson lands a good uppercut out of nowhere with all his might on an ali who is showboating. Ali goes down and grabs the rope, shaking his head but the ref gives him a standing count. Ali just continues to shake his head and looks deep into tysons eyes saying "you shoulda ended it there, boy..." and bashes tyson up with everything but the kitchen sink. Ali hadnt thrown such a powerful assault since his ko of bryan london. For a moment he looks like his old self and drops tyson after multiple solid shots to tysons jaw. Tyson is up at 7, wobbly. Ali again throws a huge flurry, blackening his eyes and making him bleed from the mouth until the ref waves it off as tyson isnt even defending himself and cant see the punches.

Frazier:

Tyson comes out from the opening bell throwing heavy shots. Frazier is dropped within 2 minutes, unable to mount an offense or use intelligent defense. Buf he gets up. Round 2, more of the same. Frazier grunts and bearies his head in tysons chest. They have an ugly phone book fight with lots of grappling and short, sharp uppercuts and hooks for the next 2 rounds. Round 5, frazier js beginning to find his rhythm and is bruising tysons body downstairs while tyson clips him upstairs. Frazier is lively in the 6th somehow and thats because hes making tyson fight at an uncomfortable pace and range, cutting his power in half. They trade hooks and frazier even wobbles tyson and makes him take a knee. Tyson realizes his mistake and uses his own body shots to create room, then lands an uppercut...down goes frazier. He wobbles to his feet almost immediately. Frazier clings on and relentlessly digs to tysons body, something very few people even attempted. Tyson gasps for air, but knows he has to finish it and uses a brutal 5 punch combo. Frazier is down, gets up, but the ref has seen enough. Tyson ko6.

Foreman:

Foreman and tysons staredown is electrifying. They return to their corners. But surprisingly nobody lands anything significant in the first round. Foreman has his palms out and throws a few big stiff jabs while redirecting the shorter, bull like tyson anytime he charges in. Tyson lands a few right hands to the body and slips a few hooks. Round 2, tyson follows up the right to the body with his infamous uppercut. Foreman takes it well, then shoves tyson back. Tyson is startled by foremans durability and strength and creeps closer and closer. Foremans big telephone pole jab is discouraging, but not that fast and he slips them. The round ends with a lot of wrestling as the two are having a battle to determine the range and pace of the fight.

Third round, tyson starts slipping and moving explosively to get in on foreman. His jab is less powerful, but its fast and helps him find range. Once there, he starts unleashing the bombs. Foreman doesnt like being crowded and countered so he again redirects tyson, this time using his big arm to turn tysons neck to his left. Tyson doesnt resist and uses this coiled momentum to bounce back with a big right uppercut. Problem is, foreman was thinking the same thing and was waiting for it with his own uppercut. With the reach and height advantage, foreman lands first and sends tyson to the canvas. He snorts thinking this will be a repeat of the frazier fight "theyre even the same height" he thinks as he waits in his corner. Tyson is up and easily dodges foremans reckless wild attempts to finish him.

Round 4, tyson slips and slips, then lands a hook that staggers foreman who stumbles into the ropes. He pursues foreman and the two trade punches until tyson drops him. Now tyson looks impassive and poised. Problem is, foreman has a lot left in the tank and knows how to survive. Everytime tyson gets in range, foreman pushes him back. The ref warns him but foreman had no intention of winning a decision and could care less about losing points. Tyson cant capitalize on the damage. Round 5, both men are hurt and weary of each others power. Tyson is frustrated at the behemoth who simply overpowers him at close range and saps his energy shoving or jabbing him at long range. Tyson decides screw it and it looks like the ruddock fight with a brawl at ring center. Unfortunately, foreman is no ruddock and has power in both hands. Tysons lack of reach and abandoning his speed and ring iq lead to his downfall, literally. He is koed by a barrage of punches at the end of the round.

Holmes:

I dont really see it being any different. Young holmes after beating norton lasts until the 8th with his superb jab and stamina, but he made lots of mistakes and lacked experience against such a fierce fighted.

Lewis:

Two possibilities, lewis wins a boring ud with a jab and grab strategy, or he gets careless and is brutally koed by tysons overhand right. This was the young, arrogant, pre emmanuel stewart lewis who lacked defense after all. Id lean toward tyson 6/10.

 

Ali, Foreman, Lewis, Holyfield and maybe Louis i would feel ok about.

 

Nice one Fergy mate...What would you say Dempseys ideal weight was ?

 

I've got Lewis as a dead cert, the rest I can see an argument for both. I think Foreman could be caught, and no one unless there granite chinned imo survives prime Tyson, I don't think foreman has recovery powers as quick as ALI or Holmes, I think he can be bombed out early against Tyson, hurt and stays hurt with Tysons ferociousness

 

I think peak unbeaten Foreman is a terrible match for Mike personally. Tyson's forward momentum would be continually interrupted and his punches often robbed of their power.

Lewis i like a lot for sure. He could spoil and bully Tyson in the clinches and we know how much he likes that.

It's great debate tho and some matches could easily go either way.

 

I like Liston too.

 

Tyson on form imo was good enough to take other atg heavies 0. I feel time has diminished what he was really about in the 80's coupled with his lack of desire and short prime really affects how people remember him