Who'd Win Lennoxx Lewis or Sonny Liston ?

Cleveland Williams II is probably the best example. He starts off with the same plan he used in I, trying to draw Williams onto his fire in a slightly more tactical effort, where he really had to come through bit of a hiding to win, but quickly changes it when he sees that Williams has slipped to a more aggressive approach where he steps more readily into the danger zone. There are other examples, but I like this one best because it shows adaption based upon one round of information.

Another cracking example is the McMurray fight, where he recognises quickly that McMurray is more mobile than he gave credit for and starts rushing him. It's risky, and he ships shots, but the strategy was validated.

The Williams fight has a parallel in Lewis's career. Lewis based his entire fight plan upon the first round he shared with Mike Tyson. He failed miserably to move through the gears. This is why Steward was screaming profanity in the corner, and evrerything he said was true. Mike was ready to be taken far earlier than Lewis took him out because he failed to adapt.

Not that i'm denegrating Lennox over that performance in any way, not at all. He proved himself superior in almost every way that was relevant. I just feel that "Lennox will win because he is to smart" is the worst kind of nonsense because it's probably based upon the way the two guys talk.

No disprespect intended.

 

That's fair enough. I see it pretty clear for Liston in adaptability though.

Earlier in this thread you lambast a body for picking out Lennox's worst performance in making this match up - rightly. Here you are doing the same thing for Liston. All I will say is that Lewis is nowhere near as mobile as Ali. Which is what caused Sonny difficulties.

I was listing fights where Liston showed great adaptablity, as you requested. Not pre-supposing that wins in either of these fights preclude a Lewis victory.

He shows a shortage of adaptability in that fight.

You seem to be saying that Tyson is more dangerous whilst knocked out than whilst running on empty. Both myself and Emmanuel Steward disagree with you.

A fluke shot can happen at literally any time. Aside from when an opponent has been knocked out. The longer a fight goes the more likely it is to happen. Yes, Lewis would have had to have taken a risk by opening up on his man. But the core of adaptability in ring intelligence is finding the safest way to procceed whilst altering strategy, not continuing to employ a strategy based upon a first round showing, which is what happened.

I think it is unlikely that Lewis would win this one, personally.

 

Yes. But Lewis threw plenty of right hands. He just threw, mainly, one or two shots at a slow pace. I'm more interested in:

"He did what he always does. He didn't put himself at risk."

That I agree with, compeltely. Lewis stuck to the lowest risk plan, showing a lack of adaptability.

Secondly, Foreman offers, "he was in the ring with him", (meaning Lewis was in the ring with Tyson). George is right. The fighter carries the can for strategy and how it is implimented. If Lewis choses to show Tyson that extra respect I don't denegrate him for that - as I said a few posts ago - but I do think he has to answer for that in terms of our interpretation.

 

Yes, I know that, you now know that, but during the fight his legendary cornerman disagreed, I disgreed. Lennox should have stepped it up. We now know he didn't need to, but most people I think would agree with what Steward was screaming in his fighter's face - step on it.

Winky Wright is not a good comparison. He doesn't have anything like the tools Lennox has for shifting up in gears. It is not like this at all.

Boxing 101 is one-paced strategy against a fighter with the power to KO you at any moment who is also ready to be knocked out himself? I disagree with you there. I think it's self-evident that this is not the case.

So when Emmanuel Steward was screaming in Lennox Lewis's face GET THAT MOTHER****ER OUT OF THERE NOW SOME CRAZY **** COULD HAPPEN, you were sat at home going, "Emmanuel is wrong there, Lennox shouldn't worry about getting him out."

Tyson ws ready. Lewis couldn't shift gears. You say this is because he didn't want to alter his perfect fight plan. I say it is because he was fighting off fight plan based upon a torrid first round. You are never going to agree with me, I am never going to agree with you. So i guess it's best left.

If Liston didn't need to change he didn't. If he didn't need to change but could, with improvements to his chance of winning the fight, he generally did this.

 

This is ring-strategy, and it is not the same as being to smart to lose to Sonny, not at all.

The best strategist Lewis faced was Hollyfield whom he had overmatched techniclly and physically. Not Lewis won both of those fights, but the robbery in the first part came about because Hollyfield, a great ring mind, was able to inflict his plan upon Lewis, making the fight slow, and making the rounds that Hollyfield lost hard to score. I'm absolutley convinced that this very thing was on Hollyfield's mind. And it worked. It shouldn't have, but it did. Lewis, again, failed to adapt, to find a different way to make Evander fight, and it cost him.

 

Another important point. Lewis would likely lose any battle of the jabs. Not many heavyweights would pull that off.

 

I think that's about the size of it, yeah.

Bruno fight is a great, gret example actually. Lewis just continued to jab with Bruno despite the fact that he was pretty close to being outjabbed. Behind on the cards, he scored the shot. Deserved his win, brutal finish.

Lennox could win. But I rarely favour fighters over Lewis by very much, I see him in close fights with the greats, I just feel that Liston is made to beat him.