Who's An Old Time Fighter, That You Find Overrated?

That's true, and I'm sure Fitzsimmons' record is incomplete as well. Even Sam Langford's record is probably incomplete (and I have him in the top 3), given how many fights he claims to have been in. But I can only rank fighters based on things that I know they have done. I know that it's unfortunate and unfair to the man, but I can't just rank him as high as someone like Charles or Armstrong based on speculation.

 

Many people here thing that Corbett id over rated, and they may have a point, given that he was often on top twenty heavyweight lists such as the IBRO's.

By the same logic wouldn't Fitzsimmons be underrated purely as a heavyweight?

 

Fitz's resume doesn't just consist of Corbett though, he also has wins over Sharkey, Choynski, Maher and Ruhlin. And I doubt anyone seriously considers him as a top 15 or 20 Heavyweight ever. But he has a very respectable resume at the weight when all is said and done.

 

Oh I'm not saying he isn't great its just that I guess I expected more and was disappointed by what I saw on tape.

 

The fact that someone Fitzs size never exceeded 175 pounds is exactly the point. If he wanted to weigh more than 175 he would have weighed more than 175.

I guess what we find impressive is arbitrary. And Fitzs power is another discussion I'm just talking about him getting credit for being a MW fighting at HW. I understand Fitz getting more respect than the other HWs of his period in a more general sense.

 

You evidently haven't seen the Bowe-Carnera thread.

 

I don't know many at all who have them in their top ten. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any list off the top of my head from this century that ranks him in the top ten.

 

I agree. Who do they think he was, Cleveland Williams?

 

TF is the Most Overrated Fighter in Boxing History...

Turpin
M Spinks
Eubank
Graham
BHop

SOG.

 

Not over rated but i think Benny Leonard on the videos ive seen of them (not too many) was kinda boring.

 

Fitz was a slender 5ft 11.5ins. 165-170lbs was as much as he could carry without it compromising his performance.

He was fighting bigger men, sometimes much bigger men, at HW. Obviously, if he was capable of weighing above 175lbs and remaining in optimum fighting shape, he would have done so. The reason he didn't is because he was a natural MW/SMW.

 

I feel Da Preem was better than his detractors say. He posed problems because of his height, weight and strength. While I believe it's true that chicanery played a role in his success, most of it was in the years before he became a contender. (Note that I said "most". I don't believe for an instant that his victory over Sharkey was legit.) But he used his size advantage smartly against Loughran, a great boxer, in a bout that looks honest to most observers. Once he got his feet under him in the middle rounds he gave Baer trouble with his jab. The much maligned historian and personality Bert Sugar claimed that Carnera would beat Vladimir Klitschko easily. I don't happen to agree, but I suppose it's possible. The key to Carnera's success, other than a gangster's rumored gun in the ribs, was understanding himself and what it took for him to win. The jab was a legitimate weapon. Combined with his long reach, it kept his foes at bay. And the man had the strength of a grizzly bear. He could toss an opponent around the ring with ease. This could get annoying, then tiring and finally dizzying. And also he was one of the great leaners in heavyweight history. He could've beaten lots of heavyweights who came after him. Hurricane Jackson comes to mind. Tony Alongi. Chris Byrd, too. Had pro football been more popular in the 1930s, Primo might have been a fine offensive lineman. Just his garlic breath alone would have knocked over many a nose tackle.

 

No hyperbole surrounding Cleve.

He might not have been exactly as fast as one - but he did stop a speeding bullet, survived it and even went on to box again.

Fact.

That’s as close as you can get to the fictional Superman.

Cleve’s only kryptonite during his prime was Sonny Liston - and Sonny was everyone’s kryptonite.

Cleve even has his own arch enemy, Lex Luther, lurking this forum - but it’s just jealousy, even Lex knows the real truth about Williams.

No matter how much “Lex” tries to talk The Big Cat down, the fact of the matter is that he loves Cleve, he just has a very strange way of showing it.

 

Nat Fleischer used the Ring Magazine bully pulpit to spread his opinions around and thus was quite influential. Because he was old and the editor-publisher and had seen a lot of the old fighters, his opinions held a lot of sway back then.